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How does it work?
Example: if a lady get remarried based on an עד אחד but really her husband is alive and the עד really thought he died, does the עד get an עבירה בשוגג?
There are other examples I’m wondering about and will probably bring them later
What does this have to do with עד אחד נאמן באיסורים?
You’re wondering if it’s an aveira for an עד or עדים to give a mistaken testimony?
Excellent, excellent question. There are many different aspects to this שאלה:
(As an aside, עד אחד נאמן באיסורין has nothing to do with עדות אשה, so the title of the post is slightly misleading)
1) Obviously the מחלוקת between the רמב״ם and the ראב״ד regarding whether כאשר זמם is applied to a שוגג.
(Somewhere in פרק כ׳ עדות)
2) Whether this מחלוקת extends to לא תענה or not. (חזון איש somewhere in מרובה)
3) Whether an עד אחד is included in לא תענה and הזמה
4) If it does, is עדות אשה, where an עד אחד is only נאמן because of דייקא ומינסבא, considered an עד with regards to לא תענה (Reb Akiva Eiger in a tshuva towards the end of chelek alef)((also in דרוש וחידוש somewhere i think i remember))הרבה יש לפלפל בדבריו
5) Assuming there is no איסור דאורייתא, is there an inyan of שוגג by dirabonons? (נתיבות, reb elchonon, and so on)And obviously all the roshei yeshiva, etc. who weigh in with their two cents on these inyanim.
ישמע חכם ויסף לקח וכו׳
הרבה יש לפלפל בזה and you could rest assured that אין כאן מקומו.
Honestly it’s nice to have a breath of fresh air from all the balderdash that goes on here about Trump and Kamala Harris and the rest of the idiotic buffoonery which people have been taught is important. Keep ’em coming!
This is not really the forum to get a full rabbinical education,but the short answer to your question is Ein davar she’b’ervah pachos mishnayim.
In the rare circumstance that we allow a lady to remarry based on an Ed echad, there are a number of criteria that must be met, including the woman testifying that “bari li” among other criteria.The way you are asking the question indicates that you aren’t a major masmid in BMG,so I am going to assume that you are a BY graduate. (not that it makes a difference to the validity of your question)
In general עד אחד נאמן באיסורין will be in effect with a minor issur (think not chayav kareis) where there is no financial incentive (think a shopkeeper on his own product).
Again, this is the light version of the answer and to really address the question you must take steps to learn more. please find a shiur on the topic, rather than putting your genuine curiosity to the whims of random (often unqualified) opinions on the internet.And no, while there are many bnei yeshiva in the coffee rooms of yeshivos far and wide, the coffee room is not the appropriate place to get Torah education.
I think we need two edim to get married. Ain davar shebarva pachos mishenayim
If they were two witnesses that he died and he turns out to be alive, teitzei mizeh umizeh, both have to be divorced.
When I asked Professor LF where is the source for one witness by מת בעלך he immediately responded that לא יקום עד אחד באיש but באשה הוא קם. So you see he did not use a ghost rider like others did but knew the מקור.
@Shazshen
“And obviously all the roshei yeshiva, etc. who weigh in with their two cents on these inyanim.”
You seem like a Yodea Sefer and maybe even a Talmid Chochom, but that line is mevazeh Talmidei Chachomim, which Chazal put in the category of apikores.
To avoid making any mistakes for such a serious question in Halacha ask your LOR
@@fakenews
I hope you׳re just trolling, because not one thing you said has any basis in the talmud or halacha. Number one, his question has to do with whether an ע״א is considered a שוגג, and he picked a perfectly valid example of עדות אשה, where an ע״א is נאמן, so your אין דשב״ע פחות מב׳ response is unintelligible.
Number two, allowing an עד אחד to be מתיר her להינשא is not a ״rare circumstance”, and you just added on a ridiculous, false condition of ״bari li” which any בר בי רב לחד יומא understands is made up, and can only have been created by someone who hasn’t the foggiest, working knowledge of יבמות, כתובות, גיטין, קידושין, שבועות, etc., etc.
Number three, Your prophetic vision about a “minor issur not ״חייב כרת could only have been dreamt up by someone who didn’t even see רש״י or תוספות on the first folio of gittin. Even a היינטיגע ראש ישיבה couldn’t be so ignorant.
Number four, your ״financial incentive” hogwash comes from a violent perversion of a גמרא in עבודה זרה and a רמב”ם and your ignorance is bliss.
Your response is not the ״light version” or the answer but rather the imbecile version of the answer.
As far as your allegation that the original poster is not crom BMG, I can only glean from your blathering response that you are from BMG, because only someone who has been through a whole machzor of ignorance could have composed this.
ואתה שלום.
One put one hand into his pocket, the Satmarer Rav ztz’l said that he should put both hands in as ein davar sheberva pachos mishnayim.
@Shaszeri
“Even a היינטיגע ראש ישיבה couldn’t be so ignorant.”
Why the continuous Mevazeh Talmidei Chachomim??? Are you so arrogant you don’t even care to forfeit your olam habah for a little letzanus??
@Ishpurim Amazing mareh makom. Did he tell you where this is? Who is Professor LF? If he answered you this on the spot, he’s a huge talmid chochom. 🙏
All I can say is that he was a son of the Solobodker Illuy in Brownsville. I remember a shiur by the RY Rav AYHP who said that causing a stumbling block for someone requires Teshuva. We learn that out from Yaakov sending Yoseph to check on his brothers. The shiur may be on Utube on וישלחהו מעמק חברון.
@Ishpurim you knew the Rebbe Reb Louis Zatzal? אשריך
You had what to do with Dmitrovsky or Halivni?Reb Eliezer: Why does she need a divorce for the second one? As her first husband is alive, the marriage to the second was never valid in the first place.
The Nodah Beyehudah discusses the above Sifri in M’K Even Ezet 33 when we can trust one witness by a woman. Maybe we trust him because he will not lie as it will reveal itself
The Beis Meir Even Ezer 17, 3 quotes the above Nodah Beyehudah and discusses the topic in great detail. The above from LF is a Sifri on Shoftim.
The wife also will not get married again until she knows for sure.
The chachamim actually. remove the marriage from the second one which was done on the their agreement that the children will not be mamzerim. Maybe since she believed that the first one was dead, the second one might be a good marriage.
Reb Eliezer: I understood that if there were children from the second, they’re mamzeirim — even if she honestly mistakenly thought the first one passed away, even though he was alive.
Kol hamekadesh adateh derabonon mekadesh, afkeh rabonon kedushin mineh.
Look at the consequences of making a mistake which determines the punishments.
CA,
You are referring to eid echad ne’eman bissurim and then you ask “If a mashgiach isn’t sure that what he sees is a bug so he says to himself “eh I don’t think it’s a bug” and passes it (but really it is a bug)”. How is that eidus, if he says he is unsure? I have never heard of an eidus where the eid says they are unsure.
By eid echad we have no way to validate the testimony.
The aggressiveness with which certain people articulate their posts is often in direct proportion to the “am ha’aratzus” in their position.
I usually ignore it, but sometimes…
The Gemara’s exemplary cases of עד אחד נאמן באיסורין are חלב and דם, both of which are חיובי כרת.
Anyway…
The Gemara says that the reason she needs a גט from the second “husband” is that we are concerned that people might assume that she had been divorced from the first husband before marrying the second, so if we allow her to remarry again without a גט משני, they will think we allowed an אשת איש to remarry.
I think the original question is very interesting, and it is not limited to the case of עדות אשה. Any time a person’s testimony is relied upon (such as when my wife prepares and serves dinner, implying that the food is kosher), a similar question can be raised.
I would guess that it is לפני עור בשוגג, but it’s like to do some research.
They were matir in SA Even Ezer 17 because of tekonos agunos. See Kesubos 22:.
catch 7:57 am> such as when my wife prepares and serves dinner, implying that the food is kosher), a similar question can be raised.
Hope you find a tirutz before the dinner time.
CA,
1) Your question was if the person who is saying the “eidus” gets an aveirah. People make mistakes, and considering the type of mistake, they might be a shogeg, oiness or meizid. Saying “eh, I don’t know so why not” is not eidus that the person should be potur on. You were not discussing the person who heard the eidus. And if the person hearing the eidus knew that the mashgiach’s position is “eh” I doubt you can rely on that, because saying, “I don’t know, why not just say ok”, without any basis is not eidus to even say there was an eid echad.
2) If he truly does not know, then it his responsibility to speak to the Rav Hamachshir, that is exactly his job. A Rav Hamachshir (or a reliable one) does train mashgichim to know how to check for tolaim. (How much is necessary and what to look for and the method to look for tolaim) and is responsible to set standards and make decisions when there is a question.
3) I would assume a housewife would know how to check and what to check or ask a shailoh, such as any other shaila as how to check for tolaim. Certainly for those who care about kashrus.
4) Your attitude sums up succinctly why certain people may not want to rely on certain hasgachos or eat at certain places. This does not need more expansion.
CA,
2) it’s simple, if he is unsure he asks Rav Hachshir. He doesn’t just say “Eh”. Even if you believe that is appropriate.
3) I’ve never seen someone just take a head of lettuce or similar and just eat it in the supermarket. The Kosher markets I go to clearly label what’s been washed and checked and what’s not.
You have a problem with assigning your failings to others and therefore you should know that when you make assumptions, while they are accurate about yourself, there is no evidence or even a smidgen of a reason to think they are true about the person you ascribe it to.
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