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Of course, in a free society, everyone is entitled to their views. But, for Torah, there is only “eilu viEilu” for Torah-conforming views, which, as discussed, does not include Zionism. Your idolatry is not, CH”V, Torah.
While he might not be your rav , Rav Kook is definatly considered a Gadol. True many other Rabbanin did not like his Zionism, but they respected him on a personal level and did not allow ANY libels against him
hakaton
If you would read real history you would know that in Pre-war Europe the largest faction of jews was not the Zionists, but rather the Bundists. They were socialist non-relgious jews who insisted on gainging civil rights in their own countries, In fact the Zionists were actually the smallest group of Jews after the Bundists and the Charedis.
It was the Bundists who were the leaders of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising and it was the Bundists who got the largest vote in the Polish Parliment.
“Of course after the war such a halacha could not be kept anymore”
Hitler yemach shemo changed the halacha for us. 🙁
“Eilu viEilu” only applies when people agree with me about everything and the difference is whether their hat brim is bent this way or that way.
Haketem,
You make Rabbi Akiva sound naive, and – Elef Havdalot – Yimach Sh’mo sound like a nice guy intrinsically (regardless of decades of latent antisemitism starting about 1908 – see 2nd chapter of his book). Whatever it takes to “make” your point, right?
Like I said before, for people Zionism is their A”Z, for others it’s anti-Zionism.
HaKatan: I was not going to respond tob your scurrilous comments but you have sunk so low that I don’t want to go to Shomayim after 120 and be reprimanded of not protesting your hateful words. You continually accuse millions of jews of being apikorsim, you continually spread the most vicious lies about gedolim, and the worst part is that you relish in it. Afra lepumecha
MDG:
I assume your misspelling of “HaKatan” was not intentional because you are surely aware that calling someone a derogatory nickname causes one to lose their Olam Haba. Certainly, you did not mean kesem as in “?????? ?????? ???? ??????? ???????” which is obviously not relevant here.
You greatly misunderstood my post. Rabbi Akiva was, of course, NOT naive. Bar Koziva was so great that, unfortunately, he was able to fool even Rabbi Akiva.
Regarding the Nazi leader, the recorded historical facts are not in accordance with Zionist whitewashes of their abominable behavior before, during and after WW II. Again, Rav Hutner (who also lived before, during and after WW II, including in E”Y) and others wrote about this. Rav Weissmandl also wrote much on this subject.
The Zionists have no answers.
ROB:
You have no answers for your idolatry and heresy. This has all been discussed numerous times. As well, when you bring up matters like Bar Koziva and the Holocaust, you are hurting, not helping, your idol.
May Hashem illuminate your eyes (and the rest of Klal Yisrael fooled by this evil idolatry and heresy) and guide you (and them) to the correct path, to His Torah.
People really need to read general Holocaust history books. The situation for jews was not the same in every country and it depended on the relationship between the local government and the Nazis. The worst situation was a place where the Nazis controlled the government with their own miliary leader like in Poland
It was actually the safest for a jew to live in a country that was a Nazi Ally and those countries were generally safe until the Nazis were losing the war in 1943-1944 and some of them tried to switch sides (Hungary , Italy and Slovakia) .Unfortunatly some of the jewish leadership of Slovakia did not understand this dynamic and some just blamed the zionists . While their intentions were genuine they didnt understand the bigger picture
I assume your misspelling of “HaKatan” was not intentional because you are surely aware that calling someone a derogatory nickname causes one to lose their Olam Haba. Certainly, you did not mean kesem as in “?????? ?????? ???? ??????? ???????” which is obviously not relevant here.
Good work! Best trolly self-righteous half-insult ever.
(I assume your words were not used sincerely, because they don’t actually make sense.)
“I assume your misspelling of “HaKatan” was not intentional because you are surely aware that calling someone a derogatory nickname causes one to lose their Olam Haba.”
Seriously? You name call and insult left and right (and in every other direction). I hope you like it HOT.
I apologize if I caused you any anguish. Your harsh words caused me much anguish (besides causing me bittul Torah) and I lost it.
MDG:
There is no reason that my posts should cause you anguish unless I somehow offended you personally, which I cannot recall doing.
Of course, if I have offended you personally, please tell me how I have done so; I certainly did not intend to do so. Moreover, my prior post was simply factual.
So instead of “losing it” and violating this severe prohibition (and continuing to insult me, too), you could have simply asked me respectfully, regardless of whether or not you think I engaged in “name calling” and “insult left and right” towards anyone else.
I still don’t understand why, for example, my post to ROB, would elicit the reaction from you that it did.
I’d explain my thoughts, but I’m afraid it wouldn’t be useful.
I apologize for my insult, and I think you owe ROB and apology.
By the way, Hakatan, if ROB’s eyes were actually illuminated, it would be harmful to his vision rather than helping him as you seem to think it would. If the same were to happen to the rest of the people you wished it to, there would be a lot more Jewish people with seeing-eye dogs, except the dogs might be spooked by the glowing eyes.
“It was AGAINAST all the gedolim to move to the United States before WW II. “
Rabbi Yosef Eliyahu Henkin z’tz’l came to the US in 1922. Rav Soloveitchik z’tz’l moved to the US at the end of 1932; His father was already here. Rabbi Moshe Feinstein z’tz’l came to the US in 1936. Rabbi Rabbi Yaakov Kamenetsky z’tz’l came in 1937. We were blessed that just as two of the meraglim saw the truth, so did a some of the gedolim.
To all:
Thanks for everyone who is speaking up for me! Truly, I have always been polite to the ones who hold different views on the matter of the medinah. For whatever reason, though, the rabid, ugly comments only come from the ones who want to denigrate the medinah and its supporters. I don’t get that. I have never ever heard anyone insulting the Satmarer rebbe and his flock.Whatever his ideology, the opponents have been respectful.Not so, the other side and that, I don’t understand. I do take exception to the ones who hold up Palestinian flags and consort with the iranians. They may be classified as “rodfim”.
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