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If anyone could help me out with this, or with sources that could help me with this, that would be fantastic.
So the gemorrah in brochas says on seeing 600,000 jews one makes the brocha of ??? ?????.
If(when at techias hameisim) one would see Modhe Rabbeinu, could on say this brocha on him alone?
I ask because the midrash equates Moshe to 600,000, and it woukd fit with the Maharsha’s pshat (that since there are 600,000 deios in the torah, ine makes it one 600,000 people. Moshe received the torah and as the nefesh hachaim says (I believe based on the gemorrah), he recieved everything, even that which a schoolchild is mechadesh).
A big issue on this is the maase brought in brochos, where one amorah said this brocha on seein two of his fellows whom he equated to be 600,000 people, an they burnt him up with their eyes.
Either way, anyone have any thoughts?
Note to Mods: This post is very long and earlier today my long post of a quote from the Chasam sofer took six hours to be posted. I assure you that there is nothing in this post which would require moderation. You don’t need to read it. It is purely a collection of the rishonim and acharonim on the sugya that Secretagentyid brought up. So please don’t take forever to approve it. Thank you.
The Gemara (58a) says:
???? ?? ?????? ????? ??????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ???’ ?”? ????? ??????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???????? ????? ?? ???
Seemingly there would be two requirements: 1) 600,000 “intellects” 2) 600,000 faces. While Moshe Rabbeinu might satisfy the first requirement, presumably he would not satisfy the second requirement.
However, on the next amud, the Gemara quotes the story which you mentioned:
?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ???????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???????? ???????? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ?????
What are we to make of this story?
The Ramban in Milchamos H’ writes:
??? ?????? ???’ ?”? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??????? ????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???’ ?? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ????? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ?? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ????”? ???? ??? ???? ???????? ???? ?? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ?????????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ??????? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ??? ???”? ???? ??? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ?? ??”? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ?? ??????? ???”? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ??????? ???? ???????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ????? ????? ???? ??
(Talmidei) Rabbeinu Yona on the side of the Rif, in explanation of the Gemara’s first statement, writes:
????’ ???? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?????
Similarly, the Tur in siman 224 paskens:
??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??”? ???? ???? ??? ?? ????? ???? ???? ??
The Beit Yosef there writes:
??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???’ ??? ????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ????? (??) ???”? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?? ?? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????”? ?? ??? ?? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?? ??? ???? ?? ???? ????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ????
The Bach there quotes the Beit Yosef and then writes:
?????? ??? ???? ??????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ???”? ???? ?????”? ???? ?? ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ????? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ????? ????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ????? ??”? ????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???”? ??? ???? ??? ??? ????”? ?????? ???? ?????? ?????”? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ?? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???
The Divrei Chamudos in Ose 27 also rejects the Beit Yosef’s pshat.
See also the Tzlach on the Gemara:
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37718&st=&pgnum=107(bottom of second column)
See also the Ben Yehoyada on the sugya:
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=20115&st=&pgnum=102 (middle piece in the second column)
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=20115&st=&pgnum=105 (bottom of first column)
[In the Benayahu he explains that R’ Papa and R’ Huna didn’t put an ayin hara on R’ Chanina; the mekatregim and mastinim did. I.e. R’ Papa and R’ Huna weren’t necessarily castigating R’ Chanina for making the beracha.
Summary:
It’s definitely a machlokes whether one says the beracha on a single great Torah Scholar. However, some of the objections of those who are against it might not apply to Moshe Rabbeinu.
Psak: When you see Moshe Rabbeinu, ask him what to do.
I’d rather not die.
Psak: When you see Moshe Rabbeinu, ask him what to do.
You might get 600000 answers.
?????? and ???? are two separate things. Anyhow, Eliyahu will be here before Moshe Rabbeinu.
Those who hold you can Pasken from that story don’t draw on the Agada of Moshe Rabbeinu being like 600,000. Neither are they Mechalek between Rebbe Eliezer or Rebbe Eliezer ben Arach and anyone else.
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