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Does anyone know the difference between ben and bein? [spelt with a segoil or a tzeirei?] I’ve been learning for some time, and i only found out recently.
Both meaning son? Isn’t one “son” and one “son of”? I believe it’s the same thing with kol and kol, one with a kamatz and one with a cholem.
Doesnt ‘ben’ mean the son of, and ‘bein’ mean between?
miritchka – Yes, when it’s spelled ???. Without the ?, it means “son of”.
LAB – Kol and Kal mean precisely the same thing. Kol has a Ta’am under it, and Kal does not. Same thing with Es and Eis.
ben – the son of…
bein – son
Mobico, it isn’t really “kal”, it is pronounced something like “kawl” with a kamatz katon and is generally connected to the next word with a makaf.
42:A kamatz katan is supposed to be pronounced like a cholom i.e. a cholom as in ???? not a kamatz-yud as in God’s name. In practice most ashkenazim don’t bother, even serious daykanim.
The practice of transliterating a kamatz as aw comes from chazanus because in the Western musical tradition “uh” sounds are sung something like “aw”
mobico – So why do you find differences in davening, where there are no Ta’amim?
oomis – I believe you got it backwards. Think “Vayoled ben”.
LAB, it’s there, just you can’t see it.
oomis – I believe you got it backwards. Think “Vayoled ben”.
I didn’t get it backwards. Remember, the Torah DOES NOT come with nekudos. People put them in, so if it is pronounced for some reason as ben, as per your example, that may be due to the way we have accepted pronouncing it in that instance. Generally speaking, from a strictly grammatical point of view, Bein is translated as “son” and Ben (as in Yosef ben Yaakov) means the “bein” of someone (though hopefully not the “bane” of anyone). It is typically written with a tzeireh under the beis, and not a sergol (I think that is the correct name for the three dots that vocalize as a short “e”, though I always said seh-gol as a child). BTW, sometimes vowels are altered because of some OTHER grammatical rule that comes before or after a particular word.
Exactly. UlaSarah Bein.
(If you continue calling it Segol, like the Gemara does, you’ll be in good company.)
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