Jerusalem Deputy Mayor Itzhak Pindrus (United Torah Judaism) has asked police to enable him to hold a donkey parade at the same time as the Gay Pride Parade scheduled for Thursday and in protest against that event.
Similar events have been held in the past by right-wing activists and various religious figures.
Pindrus’ request has not yet been granted, but his office confirmed they have no intention of giving up the protest against the Toeiva community. They even noted that if necessary they would petition the High Court to allow them to hold their parade.
“Doesn’t a donkey have a right to be a donkey?” Pindrus said to Ynet. “This is a democratic state, so we will not accept the claim that donkeys have no right to march. There are donkeys who are proud of their donkeyness and want to have a parade.”
The municipality was anxious to emphasize that the deputy mayor’s intentions were unknown to them and that this was a completely private initiative, unconnected to the municipality.
Pindrus said that though the protest did not gain municipality support, it nonetheless represents a wide section of the population.
“This expresses what we think – that this is a beastly act,” he said. “There is no logical explanation to the fact that this year they have extended the route and I don’t understand why the police allowed it.”
(Source: Ynet)
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17 Responses
Hey one minute! What if I identify myself as a donkey, too. Who gets to decide who’s a donkey?
HaLeiVi – You don’t have a choice whether you’re a donkey or not, it’s genetic (per a decision by the American Psychiatric Institute).
What next in Eretz Yisroel… a bestiality rights parade? Hashem Yerachem.
This Charedi deputy mayor and his snide attitude only push secular jews further and further away Torah and mitzvos.
If we want to have any success at attracting even a small fraction of the millions of irreligious jews back to Hashem, then we have to change the arrogant tone with which we communicate with the rest of society, especially in Israel.
The question is, do we even want to bring them back?
Enough cynicism. Reach out to them, don’t ridicule them.
The Toeiva community?????? Even this website has some arrogant notion that they can simply label thousands of Jews without regard to their individual circumstances, suffering, backgrounds, and personalities.
I’m not condoning their lifestyle. Im saying that you need more insight, more tact, more cordiality, and less Sinas Chinam if you ever hope to reach out to them. And Yes, that is what we want.
#4 Certain things don’t deserve niceties.
We learned in Parshas Pinchos a few weeks ago that Pinchos didn’t bring sholom to the world by being PC.
yes it is a toeiva.
And if you’re not sure, ask a rav; don’t decide on your own what’s considered ok or not.
We should always be nice to nonfrum people, but to accept their abominations? Not so sure
Deputy Mayor Pindrus gets a Yasher Koach. If he wanted to be arrogant about it he could have planned a running of the bulls.
#5
Niceties is the wrong word. Decent civil discourse is a better term to use.
I urge you to consider the secular Jew’s perspective. They are raised from birth to be tolerant of many different lifestyles, the “Toeiva” being one of them. If one of them privately considers it wrong for any reason, they keep their opinion to themselves to avoid offending anybody. This is true of secular American Jews at least.Most of these people have minimal contact with Charedi Jews.
These secular jews then read about Charedi jews in the media saying things like what the deputy mayor said, and this is what goes through their minds: “These Orthodox Jews are intolerant, cynical, oppressive, and disrespectful of our lifestyles, which we thing are fine. Good thing I’m not one of them”. The mindset of the secular jew causes him to recoil when he reads these donkey stories.
I personally believe that the number one goal of Orthodox, or Chareidi jewry, should be to bring as many nonfrum jews to Torah as possible. Not our own personal spiritual advancement, or that of our already frum communities, but that of the vast majority or World Jewry that is secular. The first step in this direction is to at least gain the respect of the secular jew, which currently is completely lacking. He needs to feel that we count him as one of our own, even if his lifestyle is, in our eyes, unacceptable. Like I said, we need to draw him close to us and avoid repulsing him.
Your example of Zimri is absurd. He was one of the leaders of the people, and needed to be made an example of. They didnt have the problem back then of trying to bring back 90% of jews to the Torah without divine intervention. So yes, if being PC means that even 1 jew will have slightly more respect for Torah and those who represent Torah, then every one of us needs to be PC.
I don’t know why you think i’m not sure or that i havent spoken to a Rav. I’m very confident in my opinion and I’m very sure that a Rav would urge you to be respectful, not just “nice”, towards your brothers. There are better ways to let people know what we consider unacceptable than by being cynical.
Ahem “Moshegren1”. There used to be a comment-er that always spoke up in defense of the Ballei Toevah (G-d’s term, not Yeshiva World’s).
Are you by any chance illini?
#8, not one word he wrote was in defense of that lifestyle. I think you should be more careful when reading before you attack someone.
I don’t know if it is true, but I read someplace that Rav Eliyashiv, SHLITA, agreed to Pindrus idea…
I hope all those who wrote against will surrender to Das Torah, after all Rav Elyashiv, SHLITA knows all that they wrote and still thinks there shoudl be some kind of Mechaa (this yr the route was lenghtened)
You write “I urge you to consider the secular Jew’s perspective. They are raised from birth to be tolerant of many different lifestyles, the “Toeiva” being one of them.”
Why are they holding this parade in our holy city?
I will let you in on a secret- they know we find it very offensive and they want to make the point that in the Jewish religous capital they will parade around in support of their values. If they were really honest about tolerance they would respect that we find it repulsive.
In case you are not aware western goverments, liberal media, the great bastions of modern day teaching i.e. ivy league school, all are very respectfull of Muslim values.
Maybe vilonce works????????????
I do not know what sources you have that indicate that the primary focus of frum Jews is to seek to create goodwill and positive PR with secluar Jews. I would think the first thing we should focus on is protecting ourselves from perverse secular infulence. In todays world it is hard to put on a nice face and still be utterly repulsed by the ideas of the parade. Our lack of action and protest will weaken our own reslove.
In modern orthodox circiles there are people who ahve begun to look for creative Halachik solutions to the Torahs outright rejection and repultion of this “way of life”. If we are too tolerant we could C’V end up there too HASHEM YIRACHAIM!!!!!!!
So maybe it is not so bad to be a “radical” from time to time
i like!!
Moshegren1:
Here’s a quote from G-d:
כב וְאֶת-זָכָר–לֹא תִשְׁכַּב, מִשְׁכְּבֵי אִשָּׁה: תּוֹעֵבָה, הִוא.
כט כִּי כָּל-אֲשֶׁר יַעֲשֶׂה, מִכֹּל הַתּוֹעֵבֹת הָאֵלֶּה–וְנִכְרְתוּ הַנְּפָשׁוֹת הָעֹשֹׂת, מִקֶּרֶב עַמָּם.
22. You shall not lie with a male … it is an abomination…
…Verse 29: For anyone who will do any of these abominations, their souls shall be cut off, those who do these things, from among their people.
Notice how Hashem is saying that they will be cut off eternally? Yes, that’s in the next world, but you see that there are consequences to this action of theirs. There are consequences in this world as well – and they are doing it to themselves. We can and should be nice to them as people, but we should just let them prance and skip around the holy city of Yerushalyim. There is something called a micha’a, that is what Pinchas did, and that’s what the Deputy Mayor wants to do. Kol Hakavod!
The mayor of Yerusalem should allow the gay parade that is only and this requirement must be included, only they march in Vatican city, Mecca and on the temple mount. The parade is done with adgatation from outside Eretz Yisrael.
Check and see if Uri Regev is also involve the head of the
reform movement. He would do anything and I mean everything to go and make trouble for the Charedi. When the gays but i really have a better world march in the Vatican we will see how liberal the world is. Why are the marching in Yerusalem every year. Go to tel aviv the home of the liberals. Remember an empty barrel with one marble makes a lot of noise
#14 Here is a quote from G-d too:
Isaiah 58, paraphrased: “Why have we fasted,’ they say,
‘and you have not seen it?
Why have we humbled ourselves,
and you have not noticed?’
Is this the kind of fast I have chosen,
only a day for a man to humble himself?
Is it only for bowing one’s head like a reed
and for lying on sackcloth and ashes?
Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter—
when you see the naked, to clothe him,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?”
I think the last line I quoted is especially applicable for ourselves.
As for making a Macha, that seems to be our community’s response to everything. We have been making Machas for hundreds of years now against the secular. Ask yourself if it’s been a successful tactic. We made Machas against secular education in our schools, against having the Rav’s Drasha in the vernacular, against moving to America,etc. Did they work?? A macha in a situation like this has zero effect, it only serves to heighten tension.
Yes, I agree, some of their leaders want to push our buttons by having the parade in Yerushalayim. But consider Hillel Hanasi’s response to the man who tried to push his buttons. He didn’t reject the man outright as you outrightly reject these people. He had a dialogue.
#12- I don’t need a source to tell me that our primary focus is bringing back our lost brothers, any more than I need a source telling me it’s forbidden to cut off my arm.
Imagine if a family lost a young child in a violent storm- Do you think the child’s older brother would focus on making his bed and keeping his house warm and cozy in case the child somehow finds his way back on his own The older brother would be the first one out in the storm searching desperately for the child, his own safety irrelevant.
We should be out in the storm, not shutting ourselves in our cozy house.
His actions are a disgrace and I think we should pressure some public figure (say, rav Aviner) to call him out on making a chillul Hashem. If there ever was a “toaivah” commited on behalf of yahadut, this man’s actions certainly exemplify one.