According to information released by the Gush Etzion Action Committee, Rav Dov Lior, chief rabbi of Kiryat Arba and a member of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel Rabbinical Council has permitted using telephones to stop the removal of outposts in Yehuda and Shomron. This has been confirmed by a number of other sources and reports.
Following is the text released by the Gush committee:
In light of the threat of the destruction of outposts, the public is asked to remain alert and report any suspicious movements of troops.
About shabbat:
Rabbi Dov Lior, Chief Rabbi of Kiryat Arba, told the members of the Efrat-Gush Etzion – Kiryat Arba Action Committees that if one sees a movement of troops on shabbos, and there is a possibility that these troops are on their way to destroy outposts, one can use the phone on shabbat to report about it to the known activists in the area and they will check what is going on and give instructions accordingly.
May we never need to come to that point.
May our security forces be used against the Arab enemy and in defense of the People of Israel and the Land of Israel.
Shabbat Shalom
Efrat – Gush Etzion – Kiryat Arba Action Committees
For details: Nadia Matar 050-550-0834
Yehudit Katz over – 050-716-1818
Miriam Fleishman – 052-429-5557
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19 Responses
Great message for those who want to use the parking lot in Yerushalayim for what they deem to be important. He can just do away with shabbos because it meets his political needs? Let’s get our act together.
To Charvona;
Im ayn daas havdolah minayin
is the torah hefker by you that any shnook that condones chilul shabbos gets an honorable mention?
IT is consistent with the Religious Zionist view that political control of Eretz Yisrael is equivalent to “Pikuach nefesh.” That’s how they justify giving up on learning in order to play soldier. Indeed, if one required a threat to life (the hareidi standard of “pikuach nefesh”) in order to obey army orders to do malachos on Shabbos, it would probably result in the individual being unable to serve in the army except in a limited capacity.
So if you hold by the Dati Leumi movement, this halachic view is logical and consistent.
Well Well…. Another consevadox “Ra -Boy” finds some new “Pikuach Nefesh”. It’s hurts to know that those who never are Moiche when it come to Kvoid Shomayim, desecrate hashems name for their Mishugas of making settelments in yehoopitz. He really didn’t even deserve a mention…
To #3,
If you were referring to me, my answer to you is; I’m not smart enough to decide how right or not R’ Lior is. Nor do i think i have a right to. But how can you compare a phone which is a D’rabonon, connected to what R’ Lior may feel is Pekoach nefesh -right or wrong-, How can you compare a shomer shabbos rov, to someone going shopping on Shabbos? ( Just because you disagree with him?).
One more thing; Why are you calling someone else’s rov a “schnook”? Your language diminishes your position.
with all due respect to all rabbonim including rav lior, these rabbis that permit using phones for whatever reason and however important, these are the same rabbonim that permit girls to wear trousers underneath skirts and permit many other contreversial piskei halochos which gdolim have never and will never permit. one has to be careful into adhering to such unnecessary piskei halocha.
Wants wrong with wearing trousers underneath skirts if you hold that trousers are not beged ish? Are women not allowed to wear trousers at home, in a women’s jim etc???? I don’t find this controversial at all.
Give me a break- R’ Shlomo Zalman in Minchas Shlomo mattured the telephone on shabbos. Apparently no one commenting here knows anything of substance. R’ Moshe mattured adjusting the volume on a hearing aid on shabbos. A cell phone is more complex, but (excluding the chazon ish) there’s really nothing assur about it to begin with.
This Psak is not in the least way controversial, from a halachic standpoint. It only appears that way to the unlearned readers.
It is well-known that Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, ZT”L, was the greatest expert on electricity among the Gedolei HaPoskim. Indeed, he wrote Meorei Aish, a comprehensive Sefer on electricity in Halacha, when he was relatively young.
Rav Shlomo Zalman held that electricity, WHERE NO LIGHT IS CREATED (e.g. using the telephone), is at most an Issur d’Rabbanan (Rabbinic prohibition) even on Shabbos.
Sounds like the typical R. Ovadia Yosef, R. Weintraub, and others ‘OUT OF CONTEXT’ rulings.
May the growth of torah, maasim tovim and yishuv haertetz grow strong.
To all those who are bashing this ruling:
Rav Dov Lior is a recognized posek in Eretz Yisrael of great renound. His pesakim in no way fall under any “modern” standard. Among his pesakim: he favors mehadrin bus lines, requires mechitzas at weddings, he DOES NOT allow girls to wear trousers under their skirts (you hear that Dave10?), aderaba, his standards of tznius as brought down in his teshuvos (partially published in the first volume of SHU”T Dvar Chevron) are much more machmir than many mekubal in the American charedi community. And, as many may not know, he sits on the beis din hagadol of Yerushalayim with Rav Zalman Nechemia Goldberg Shlit”a.
On a personal level, he is an incredible man. He was born in Poland and survived the camps. He came an orphan to Eretz Yisroel and built communities all over and personally has kn”h 14 children. The existence of Jews in Chevron and the right to daven in the maaras hamachpeila is in large part due to his work. He was in close contact with Rav shlomo Zalman Auerbach ZT”L on many important issues of psak and rabbanus. He also is known for his anava and accessability to all in his community that need him.
From a halachic point of view, mattiring the use of a cell phone on shabbos for this is not far fetched at all. It is pretty much mefurash in shulchan aruch. The mechaber paskens lemaisa based on the gemmara that if goyim come to a border city even just to steal we are mechalel shabbos deoraisa because a border city is considered the security of the whole nation (the mechaber brings this down bizman hazeh). Rav Lior Shlit”a is allowing the use of an electric appliance, considered a derabanan at worst by the majority of poskim today based on the authoritative psak of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach ZT”L brought down in SHU”T Minchas Shlomo as well as many other later seforim on hilchos shabbos. Allowing the violation of a derabanan in order to save a border city (in this case outposts that prevent contiguous Arab settlement which cause security problems, that can R”L result in death, for hundreds of thousands of Jews) is quite mistaber and not at all far fetched.
Instead of jumping on the collective bandwagon of bashing the psak of a rav we may not be familiar with becuase he does not appear on the weekly kol korehs published in our American Torah publications, lets judge it based on its merit. V’hashem yair eineinu b’toraso hakedosha.
to #11, utter nonesense. He has no objection for girls wearing trousers underneath their skirts. his children and grand children use the ridiculous dress code and he has no objection. Rav lior is a big talmid chocham but like most rabbonim of that stature they are confused when mentioning basic halocha,minhagim and tznius.
to #11 and yes the truth must be said. all which you have mentioned about rav lior is correct, he is a wonderful person but all the weird piskei halochas do not mean that he is correct on our above issues. if you look closely the majority of youth coming out of the yishuvim are not shomer mitzvos unfortunatly, because they have no guidance whatsoever about basic yidishkite. eretz yisroel is important but so is yidishkite and all weird and posul minhogim are cofusing and therefore the kids are not interested. look at the facts, its tragic.
#11 What are you talking about? He’s always been making trouble, from ascending the har habayis to crazy statements about the future and now this?
Get your facts straight!!!!!!!
Dave 10 – please explain to us the issur of wearing trousers under a skirt. I looks weird but adraba it probably is more tzinusdik than just a skirt.
I am not sure why you decided to be mosei shem ra about an entire community.The fact is the majority of kids who live in these yishuvim are fine young jews with great yirat shamayim and great misirat nefesh for EY.
Unfortunately a few have been traumatised by the whole Gush Katif debacle especially those who themselves were evicted from their homes and had their lives ruined. I think as frum yidden our hearts should go out to them instead of looking down on them just because they do not look or dress like you.
As #11 eloquantly wrote the Rav is a great Talmid Chacham. Unfortunately the whole psak was not written here. Maybe people should read it beiyun before making disparaging remarks about a gadol.
Please remember that we are in the 3 weeks and we should be trying to work on our achavat chinam . Let’s think before we write things especially about a gadol even though he is not from your camp.
daasbaalhabayis – why don’t you send a shayla to Rav Zalman Nechemia Goldberg Shlita (yl”a the son-in-law of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach Zt”l) and ask if you have to ask machila for calling one of his talmidim a snook!
this website is full of angry people who Are talking without thinking an consulting maybe the rabbi thought it over maybe their are people that know more then you. maybe we should think before we write
To all those who bash Rabbonim, please be embarrassed and ask for an apology. The Gemara in Gittin 8b explicitly paskens that Yishuv Eretz Yisroel permits “כותבין עליו אונו אפילו בשבת”. The explanation of this phrase is disputed by the Rishonim, as to what degree of issur is permitted through amira l’akum and under other circumstances, but as Tosfot there and the Ramban in Shabbos 130 explains, it is a unique heter for yishuv Eretz Yisroel, in the words of the Ramaban, “That the land of Israel should not be destroyed”.
The Rabbis of the dati-leumi world did not devise this mitzvah of yishuv Eretz Yiroel nor were they the only ones to follow it, unfortunately the mitzvos which were so precious to Rav Yosef Chaim Zonnenfeld and other leading Chareidi rabbonim, aren’t followed by those who enjoy bashing the Torah and its followers. And yes, anyone who thinks they know better is welcome to discuss the matter with any Rav or with me. By the way see Nachalat Yaakov who brings down stories where in the middle of Yom Kippur Rabbanim of the old Yishuv registered land bought from arabs as Jewish, and see there how Rav Yosef Chaim ZOnnenfeld allowed on Shabbos the buying of land for the irreligious Bezalel school, because of Yishuv Eretz Yisroel.
Rav Lior is not a meikil Rav, but he does have a photographic memory and knows a little more than those who wrote here.
to #20. You guys have missed the point. you obviously have no idea what is going on in the dati leumi camp. the issue is not rav lior, the issue is much wider. rav shapira(ramat gan) called the camp noe reform, rav zini called them total reform. the reason is so simple: minhogim dont need to be written, minhogim is yidishkite, when they are ommitted or changed the tzibur is “mebulbal” and the results are for eveyone to see. this has nothing to do with gush katif etc, this has to do with a tzibur that has no real rabbinical leadership. rav lior is a talmid chocham, he is not godal hador. you need to put everything in the correct perspective. all different communities have their issues but the dati leumi have massive issues. no rabbinical guidance, and parents who think that eretz yisroel is the only mitzvah to adhere to 100%. look at their next generation, they are wrong!!!!