A religious soldier who davened Maariv on Tuesday night the eve of 24 Menachem Av 5773 in the Ohr HaTzafon shteiblach in Yerushalayim was met with “Chardak Get Out!” by a number of extremists in the minyan. The soldier decided to ignore their shouts and he davened Maariv with the minyan.
After the minyan the extremists followed him outside, but they did not do anything.
After the soldier left some of the mispallalim admonished those who shouted at the dati leumi soldier, explaining it is pointless to call them chardakim since it is not applicable. Others felt it is appropriate to shout at any and every IDF soldier that enters the shteiblach.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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30 Responses
Jumping the gun, as they say.
The issue may be resolved peacefully. The army doesn’t really want to draft non-zionist hareidim, and the zionists as they realize that many hareidi are anti-zionists who are refusing to serve out of opposition to zionism will be wary of drafting or imprisoning conscientious objectors since they last thing they want is to the rest of the world demanding the release of Jewish “prisoners of conscience”.
Rav Shach said that those who are not learning should serve, and he said that before the army started to address the special needs of Haradi soldiers. Those who attack Haradi soldiers are also attacking da’as Torah (although I doubt that the extremists who carry out such attacks are phased by such admonitions).
Where is this shul located?
The IDF goes to war against the Chareidim and what do they expect? Chareidim to roll out the red carpet? The Israeli Army should expect this kind of excerice of free speech by Chareidim until Israel revokes its democracy and free speech laws or until the Israeli Government ends its war against Chareidim.
With army uniform he should daven in the army, otherwise he should change to religious uniform as per request of Gedolei Yisrael.
thats really weird. i daven there usually two but at least one tefillah a day. soldiers in uniform are commonly there and i have never seen or heard anything negative directed at them. fakert, i was always impressed how no-one ever said anything. whoever reads this should know its mamesh an isolated incident in this shteiblach. and its name is ohr hatzapun.
Those that shouted at the Chayal should be forced to daven with the women of the wall
Is that a real picture? I thought Chariedim couldn’t have such a long beard and peyos while serving?
I really hope there was a minyan without counting the extremists.
It’s time for good frum Jews to do two things. Openly disassociate from the coarse violent extremists, speak out against them at every opportunity and let the world know that they don’t for a second represent Torah Judaism.
Second, leave en masse from the radical madmen leaders who speak in the name of Torah. Leave their yeshivos, quit their shuls and shteiblach and let them fester alone in their perverse hashkofos. Choose a new group talmidei chachamim, compassionate, humble servants of Hashem and klal Yisroel,rabbonim who rule and pasken NOT according to their own negias and personal ambitions and crown them as our rebbes and moireh drochim. May Hashem help that we find such treasures- I’m confident that they exist- All is not lost, we will yet see sholom and sanity . The rot will yet be cleansed from our midst. Hopefully , that blessed day comes soon.
I’m a vegetarian woman, hence my avatar. Maybe I’m missing something, but could any of you learned people here explain to me how in a mikdash meaat, a shul, a holy place can such a disgraceful act happen? How in the world does one Jew publicly shame another, apparently with the approval of at least some daveners? Besides the fact that these soldiers protect them, their families and their shuls. You should all kiss his feet.It’s a HIMMEL GESHREI, as we say in Yiddish. It’s horrible! Is this what you learned from your rabbis? Is this what they teach? I never heard of such horror in my home. Imagine, a Jew comes to daven in a shul no less and is cursed at in public. Be careful what you’re doing . Do tchuveh now before Ellul. Hashem should have mercy on us… It’s scary. I’m scared for us all. You’re messing with a living G-D that hears and sees everything. Don’t you even tremble at what just happened? I can’t get it out of my mind.
#8, conscript soldiers cannot wear their hair this way but reservists can.
Interestingly, when I was (forcibly) drafted into the army a few months ago and I davened at Ohr Tzafon dressed in my army uniform and the only thing that happened was a bunch of yungerleit who recognized me from BMG wanted to take pictures.
RCK
OF COURSE a Beard and Payos are allowed in the IDF! Here’s what you have to do: 1. Arrive with an army haircut (very short – like chassidim get before Pesach for sfira) as required so you don’t end up at the secular army barber who shaves heads and doesn’t know how to do payos. 2. Tell the commander you have a beard and payos for religious reasons. That’s it! You are then issued an “issur zakan and payot” for your whole time in the army. Oh, and you get an automatic “long hair allowed” for sfira and the 3 weeks too!
At least one well known rov has publicly endorsed non violent verbal attacks against religious soldiers in order to deligitamize the option of joining the army in the eyes of our youth.
#11 In the Beit Hamikdash there was a Tzedoki who did something according to the Tzedoki shita (known today as Karaim) which was against daat Torah. The public in the Beit Hamikdash stoned him with their etrogim which they happened to have with them as it was Sukkot.
We see that when somebody does something against Daat Torah, Klal Yisrael know how to handle the case properly.
The problem is that you don’t understand the severity of the matter and how dangerous it is for religious Jews to enter such an army and that sharing the burden is nothing but sharing the burden in gehenom.
Look into Parshat Hashavuah, this week’s reading of the Torah and see the approach towards a mesit umediach where one may not have an iota of mercy towards these people. See Rashi. The anti Chardak campaign view the Chardak as a mesit umediach.
In short, there’s a war going on between the kedusha and the sitra achra and at wartime different laws apply.
#14 That’s 100% true and I know whom you’re referring to.
When I was the as same age as that charedi soldier I attended university in New York. At that time, a bumper sticker read, “If you think cops are pigs, the next time your house is being burglarized, call a hippie.” Let us not vilify the heroes of Zahal as a release for our opposition to or contempt for the government that recruits and commands them. The soldiers who serve in Zahal do not volunteer out of a desire to support the NLB (Netantyahu, Lapid, Bennet) government. They do so out of a sense of duty or a legitimate reason of economic necessity. They do not feel that being a soldier means that their lifestyle of Torah, Avodas HaSh-m and chessed must change. I often davin at Ohr Hatzafoon. Never did I witness hostility towards uniformed soldiers. Never did I see even one man protest or exit a minyan when a uniformed soldier went to the amud as sh’li’ach tzibur. The nasty protesters are not in any way paradigmatic of the masses, literally MASSES of regular or visitng parishioners at Ohr Hatzafoon. – See more at: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=179957#sthash.zNDqt7yE.dpuf
To #14,,,, I’m pretty sure I know which one you mean. My family in Israel updates me all the time. This prominent man has followers and a newspaper. He’s not to be called rav, he’s an instigator. If this is the guy, then his father, a famous rav, was different and would never say these things. Yes, that part of the charaydi world has gone stark raving mad.
#18 According to your description you’re mistaken with the Rav. I’m sure #15 agrees.
#2 Sorry, but what you wrote about R’ Shach is sheer and utter nonsense. Obviously you don’t have the slightest inkling of an idea what R’ Shach said or held. The army is treif – plain and simple. Kol Ba’eah Lo Yishuvun. Not that they’ll all come out frei, chalilah; it doesn’t have to be that extreme. But no one going into a place like that who’s goal is AGAINST what the Torah stands for; “KOCHI V’OTZEM YADI ASAH LI ES HACHAYIL HAZEH” is going to come out the same.
Come on, don’t be a naar. That some people should be working and not hiding in yeshiva, yes. That some people should go into an environment who’s entire metzius is the same goal as the misyavnim – k’chol ha’amim beis yisroel, shabbos, nivul peh, pritzus, besides being meshubad to the deios and whims of a non-Torah superior – for three years at an impressionable age of 18 – that’s the way to destroy the fabric of the entire kehilla of shomrei mitzvos, and they know it! The army is the “kur hituch” of Ben Gurion, to create a new breed of “Israelis”. And to say such craziness in the name of R’ Shach….
#16, you are right, there’s a war going on between the kedusha and the sitra achra, only the sides are reversed and you’re on the wrong side of it.
Listen A Thought;
Just because I’m a woman you think I’ll believe your MERAGLIM EVIL REPORT. You know very well that an IR Hanidachas never happened and WILL never happen. And on what madrayga are to know if there is a war between kedusha and sitra achra? If indeed there is one, it is this hateful attack on another Jew in SHUL. This is the sitra achreh clothed as a charaydi… Since you know who is and isn’t going to gehennom, let me tell you this. It’s not from me, it’s from the Torah that you like to quote. : Whoever shames his friend in public – AYN LO CHAYLEK LEOLAM HABOH.!! That we know for sure. The other stuff you’re babbling is prejudice and propoganda. You have no proof of anything you said.
For all those who are quoting this rabbi that rav or generally making stuff up just know , by refusing to help in the IDF you are transgressing LO SAMOD AL DAM REYECHA. You’re using the Torah to dodge your duty. WORSE, you’re using the Torah and some sick rabbis’ hysteria to physically assault and degrade another Jew. How you people can continue to defend this is beyong any understanding. Is anybody here thinking for themselves or are most of you brainwashed robots repeating ‘gedolim’ mantras?? It’s scary.
#16– The story happened in a Bays hamedrah when the Zedokim aruedduring a shiyur . Nobody goes into batei midrashim today to lecture the chareidi. They’re attacking people at random even when the victims ignore them. You’re talking apples and oranges.The filthy word you use to describe a chareidi soldier who does not preach or mediach is a disgrace. You cannot even draw conclusions from an Ihr Hanidachas.You need a full sanhedrin for that.
You should read Eim Habonim Semaicha by Harav Teichtal HI”D and then you’ll see who the sitrah achrah is. You’ll be surorised.
Dear rebbeleben… Blah, Blah, Blah.
to # 20 REBBELEBEN
I thought that “Internet (besides the army)is treif – plain and simple.
So the question what you are doing here? Do you think your RAV will approve because it is obvious you are not here on the site for Parnosa
“AThought”, well said. Thank You for pointing out these fundamental truths, as unpopular as they may be with folks here.
#26 I have no problem discussing what I’m doing here, but that’s not what this blog was about. I was responding to something that #2 quoted from Rav Shach. It has about the same credibility as quoting from Rav Shach that for someone who’s not learning he should spend his days blogging in the YWN coffee room. Not all that likely.
#25 hmmm…. interesting. Thank you for sharing that with us.
#20 Draft will not begin till age 21 BTW