From his point of view, former Mossad Director Ephraim Halevy feels that his words are indeed accurate and he has backed them up by announcing “if they want to take me to court on it, so be it”.
The senior official was addressing graduates of an IDF prepatory yeshiva, telling them how he grew up in Bnei Akiva, speaking of the positive experience regarding Yiddishkheit and faith as a result. He told them “the chareidi way darkens our lives. When I was in Bnei Akiva, boys and girls were together. They weren’t religious? Those rabbis back then were not religious? Rabbi Goren knew there were mixed army choirs. Did he forbid them?”
“What happened to us? Did those rabbis fail to adhere to mitzvos and halacha? Was the traditional Bnei Akiva youth movement reckless? The true threat to Israel comes from within, the extremism, the chareidiazation. This is what presents the true threat, more than Ahmadinejad.”
Halevy’s words were met with an angry response from Shas cabinet minister Atias.
Speaking on Channel’s Two’s Meet the Press, the former senior intelligence community addressed the Iranian threat and as well as the chareidi threat as he sees it.
Following are excerpts from the TV interview:
I don’t think that the Iranian threat is an existential one. I don’t believe that Iran can wipe Israel off the map and I believe that the time has come, after sixty plus years of the state that we do not speak about threats in apocalyptic terms, as the defense minister has stated.
We must speak with confidence and exhibit a measure of self confidence. If we speak in apocalyptic terms, then we are sending a message to the enemy, that the moment he has a nuclear weapon then we begin the countdown timer of the state. We are causing significant damage to the states’ deterrence abilities as well as Israel’s ability to position itself and find its rightful place among the family of nations.
C2: Are you trying to say that it is easier to deal with a threat that is not existential, such as the growing chareidi trend in the country?
No, no, I said something else. I believe that we are entering a very difficult period and one of the things that are essential is achdus (unity) among Am Yisrael. I believe that issues addressing the personal aspect, such as conversions [to Judaism], the women’s place in the military, these are issues that divide us. We must find the way to unite the Jewish People, not to divide.
C2: So you are more concerned about the chareidi threat than the Iranian?
Yes, because at the end of the day, we know how to deal with the Iranian threat. Decisions will be made and I believe the correct decisions like the decisions were saw in previous governments regarding other serious matters.
C2: In street justice court you can be number two next to Meir Dagan, since Minister Atias already said that you are an inciter and MK Gafne wishes to bring you up on charges.
There are laws and protocols for this and the attorney general can review the matter and make a decision. If this will be the decision, so be it, bring me up on charges.
Now that I have explained myself I can only hope that Minister Atias and MK Gafne will use their time and energy to remove the barriers for the hundreds of thousands in Israel who don’t have a place and we are working to bring them in, to find them a place, so they can be on this side of the fence, not the other…
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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16 Responses
From its beginnings in the 19th century, the goal of zionism, as expressed elouqently in their anthem (later adopted as a national anthem) is to establish a state where Jews will be an “Am Hofshi” — a people (unlike what the assimlationists wanted) but free from the yoke of Torah.
So what’s the hiddush.
In the long run, its us or them, whether we, or they, want to admit it.
Apukerma, the goal of Zionists was to found a safe haven for Jews.
This should really show the frum people what the tzionim think. I hope this mamzer sees his g’henim in the form of his ayniklach becoming shomer torah u’mitzvos or what these people call “haraydi.” This rosha nebach doesnt realize that if we have achdus in TORAH U’MITZVOS it will go a longer way than having achdus in avayros which is what he wants.
That’s right, mdd; that’s why they disallowed practicing Yiddishkeit in the youth camps for immigrants…
Sigh…another one who expresses the goal of zionism as “to found a safe haven for jews.”
The issue on the table at the time zionism came to be was what is wrong with Jusaism and what can be done to fix it so that we can fit in with the other nations / stop getting persecuted.
Option 1 was to simply dump ones jewish identity and convert to another religion and prove that one was a better goy then the goyim and continue to live among the goyim.
Optioin 2 was to define ones Jewish identity in term of culture – yidish language, theatre, art, ect. and continue to live among the goyim.
Option 3 was to define onesjewish identity in terms of nationalism and to live as a sovergn nation in our own land – Zionism.
Ha Tzad Hasheva Shebechem – The common denominator was the we would no longer be an Am HaTorah but like all the other nations. This is something we where very clearly told by the Ribono Shel Olam through a Navi will never happen. Jewish history bears this out over and over again.
The matter was and continues to be much more globle then “to found a safe haven for the Jews” – mainly what defines a jew and just how does a Jew go about creating a “safe haven” The very clear goal of zionism as expressed by their own leaders was to define the jewish nation as a nation like all other nations and that this would provide our “safe haven”
#1 yak,yak,predictable talk
Religious Extremism destroys Toras Hashem and throws the kiruv movement out the window.
zionflag: Who is out in the field doing kiruv? It is almost exclusively thw B’nei Torah: the volunteers of Lev L’Achim, the talmidim of Rav Noach Weinberg z”l, the dedicated chavrosos of Partners-in-Torah, etc. In other words, the chareidim.
#6 you are wrong………
6, You have a problem with the truth? “Am Chofshi” meant free from mitzvos. That is the fact! The facts are we cannot survive in Eretz Yisroel WITHOUT ki’yum ha’mitzvos! Sorry if that doesnt go with your liberal agenda.
#4 and #5,it is true that most Zionists were not frum and some anti-frum. It is not true, though, that Zionism was founded to take Jews off the derech. The frei Zionists would have been off the derech and some attempting to take others off even without Zionism.
Simple Chussid, advice to you and members of your community: it is important to know what’s going on outside of Boro Park and know the facts of the matter at hand before saying things.
Akuperma, would it have been better if those
Jews became assimilationists instead of Zionists?
#2- correct, a place where Jews could safely give up Yiddishkeit without having to convert to Christianity (as was the case in most countries in the 19th century).
As it turned out, they could have settled for the United States, which by the 20th century didn’t mind secular Jews (who are now found in all sorts of places).
If you read tghe writings of Herzl and the other founders of zionism, it is clear that opposition to Torah and Mitsvos was a feature of the movement from its inception.
mdd and zionflag, the zionists’ goal was to create a secular haven for Jews and to uproot Torah. They wanted to redefine the Jewish nation as a people of the land and not the people of the Book. They cut off the peyos of Yemenite immigrant children, sold Yemenite babies for money and told parents that the children died, forced war orphans from deeply religious homes to go to secular kibbutzim where they were given treif to eat every day, including Yom Kippur and where they mocked anyone who showed sympathy to Jewish tradition. They sunk the Altalena thus murdering fellow Jews because they didn’t want Etzel gaining political power when there would be a Jewish State. Likewise, they murdered Dr. DeHaan because he was too articulate in explaining the religious position. And zionflag, for your information, it is the chareidim who operate the most successful kiruv organizations and it is people like Halevy and his ilk who poison the minds of the masses with their lies while the secular media continuously fan the flames of sinas chinas against chareidim. Religious extremists (sikrikim)are on the fringe of chareidi society, which, like all societies, has bad apples, and yes, they do make a bad name for chareidim. But they do NOT represent the entire group, and it’s people like Halevy that blur the lines between the masses of chareidim with their hundreds of large and small gemachim and the wild fringe elements. Please don’t be like them. When you need medical equipment you know to call Yad Sarah, when you need medical advice, you know to call Ezra u’Marpeh, and if you have a hospitalized loved one, you know where to get meals in the hospital or transportation to and from if you don’t have a care. If you know of poverty stricken families, you know to contact Yad Eliezer, Yad Ezra v’Shulamit and the many chareidi organizations that distribute food. These increase ahavas Yisrael that should more than counterbalance the wild chareidim on the fringe who don’t exactly increase love for Torah and mitzvos. Please have an ayin tovah and maybe Hashem will look kindly upon you, middah k’negged middah.
When they say charideim they don’t mean american style chariedim….he is referring israelie hard core chariedi which he is referring to if you watch the speech…. And he is 90 percent correct…. Of the thousands of charideim who don’t serve and don’t work how many do u think r really in yeshiva learning all day?? The system is taken advantage of…many wait till they r 30-35 5 kids and then try to work…they have no education and will never earn more than min wage….. It creates a medicaid state and “march on wall street” type of atmosphere. Gvmt is not a charity…everyone needs to contribute….. Not fair to sit on side and shnorer when everyone else is working…this is not a zionist issue this issue of being lazy…usa has same issues..
Former Mossad Head is sick sick sick. If he believes the frum are more threatening then Iran; he needs psychological help now now
Ladler, what would have been better without Zionism? Those fellows would have been off the derech anyway,derech klal!