Reply To: At what point are you officially one side or the other?

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#983396
HakunaMatada
Member

Feif un-

I never said that we should all be doing what the Gra did, but to claim that the Gra wouldn’t agree with what we are doing seems ridiculous.

Additionally, there are people from all stripes who do what they’re not supposed to do. It’s not a hashkafa of chareidim to do the things you mentioned. (I don’t want to get into covering up molesters, it’s very complicated in terms of how much evidence is necessary IN HALACHA to take it to the police. So I’m not willing to get into it, because it’s not a slam dunk either way.) Chareidi hashkafa is that movies and tv aren’t acceptable due to the inevitable pritzus and inappropriate content contained in most material. Covering hair is also something that is a halacha, and isn’t debatable. Just because people don’t do what they should doesn’t mean they or other people in their circles think it’s right. unfortunately there are many things people do wrong, but if you ask them, they went condone it. And regarding tznius, there are some things that are clearly defined, like covering hair, and other things which should be done, but are more gray, and not so clearly black and white, such as tightness of clothing. And, as i said, there are plenty of MO who cover their hair, but there are those who don’t, AND WILL TELL YOU THERE’S NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. that’s the difference. And there are other realms of halacha, such as mingling of genders where MO isn’t as scrupulous. In fact, that was one of the reasons the MO rabbis in the early twentieth century modernized it was too attract the masses which they felt would be completely lost, so they sacrificed in halacha hoping for wider acceptance.

Sam2-

Like you said yourself, the way it was back then was how it had to be, people needed to make a living. but when that’s not necessary, such as the Jews in the Midbar, there was no excuse to not learn all the time. The Gra himself says on the Mishna of talmud torah kineged kulam that there’s a mitzvah to learn every second of the day, unless you have a reason not to, such as parnassa. The MO world as a whole doesn’t have the attitude that Torah is all important and the top priority.

I don’t really understand what you mean that Daas torah is an innovation. The Ramban on the posek of Lo sosur says that there are two logical reasons to listen to the chachamim. 1. they’re more knowledgeable and probably right. 2. Because they’re the leaders, Hashem gives them special siyata dishmaya. A third reason is that from learning Torah, you see where the Torah and chazal’s values.and ideals are. Hashkafa isn’t a rabbi’s personal opinion, it’s applying his learning of Torah values to that situation, the same as in halacha issues where it isn’t discussed explicitly in halacha, you have to apply the proper halacha. who else would you rely on for the torah’s perspective on issues if not people with the most Torah knowledge?