The NYPD is telling its officers to clean up their act, including cutting long hair, shaving all facial hair except moustaches, and getting rid of any jewelry. Patrol Chief Robert Gianelli has told police brass to make sure uniformed officers look military sharp, with good grooming and crisp uniforms. Uniforms must be cleaned and pressed and shoes must be shined. Those not in compliance will be subject to warnings over the next few weeks. Eventually they could face discipline, including the possible loss of vacation time. (Source: NY1)
Editors Note: This leaves one wondering, what Yoily Witriol, the first Frum (Chassidish) NYPD officer in history going to do with his beard?
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58 Responses
Yoily is not working on Shabbosim, Yomim Tovim, has to leave work early on Fridays when the days are shorter, has to leave earlier on Chanukah for lecht, is limited on Chol Hamoed etc; etc; etc;,,,,,NOW THE BEARD IS THE PROB,????
I’d be surprised if they don’t make an allowance for religious needs.
OR . . . just “something to think about” . . . it will be much easier to dismiss YW on charges totally unrelated to religious observance than trying to tell him we can’t have you here if you want to light Chanukah licht.
are they gonna enforce the no fat policemen rule?
of course not!
so the beard rule will be ignored (at least as far as r yoily is concerned).
He got a rabbinical dispension. But, this time it may not be enough. I admire him though. His family is known in Williamsburg to be very patriotic.
To Chassidim wearing a beard a religious need. But, I don’t know why a frum Yid had to go into such a goyish field as being a policeman.
Is this a new policy? Or is it new enforcement of an old policy? If it was already the policy when he signed up, then that is a chance he took, that they might start enforcing.
it’ great for him…now he can can sue the nypd for Religious Discrimination
p.s. after he sues, he can finally retire.
Firstly the title is very derrogatory (sic)
secondly he has it for religious purposes and I’m sure will be able to keep it.
He should look for alternate employment if he has issues with the departments policies.
Please dont make this into a debate or forum to discuss whether a BEARD is necessary according to Jewish Law. It is sad enough that we are living in Golus with Jewish police men…
isn’t being clean shaven a heter? Aftterall, until the electric shaver that cut like a scissor, it was impossible to get a clean shaven look without a blade. I don’t beleive being a NYPD officer invvolves a heter of working on Shabbos. in Eretz Yisroel ,maybe, but not NY
For a Chosid, especially a Satmar Chosid, a beard is a religious need.
He will be exempted by NYPD for his religious requirement.
#12, Department policy is Officers must work on Saturday. Yoeli is exempted for that department policy. Do you propose he be required to work on Saturdays?
‘Eileh Barechev,,,,,,’
I’m just wondering what his name sake would have thought about this!
NOT exactly the nicest headline on a nice Jewish website “Whats Yoily Cop Gonna Do?”
no one answered the first question i think its been asked a few times: what exactly IS the religious need?? if they were telling him to shave his peyos, or to not wear a yarmulke i could see religious discrinimation…but where is it written that a beard is a chiyuv?? EVEN for chassidim? just cuz its the norm doesnt mean it is ASSUR to go without a beard. i think this is blown a tad bit out of proportion.
#16 , so they gave into him for shabbos. Whats next , chulent on Thursday ? Why do we need everything to go our way? Its not like there are no other carreers to choose from that will allow his religious beliefs to stay intact. It is kind of odd that a hassidic jew puts himself into such an environment that begs for these issues to arise. All it does is ask for friction and anymosity.
FayMemMemLamed: Where have you gotten your information? Yidden for hundreds of years have used special powerful (smelly) cream that removes the entire growth and leaves the face toatally clean shaven.
20,
My point was if the Police Force tolerates all the restrictions he is bound to for religious reasons, why would they not allow him to keep his beard?
house77, I believe that in our religion there is a concept of minhag k’ din. Meaning that a minhag should be upheld as a halachah. In the chassidic communities, a beard is a must, worn by every male as dictated by their minhag. I think we should all honor this and stop making comments about the credibility of a beard. Just as an aside, I’ve have heard many stories of men having their beards pulled out by the Nazi’s rather than shaving them with their own hands. BTW beards are NOT the minhag of my family but I can respect those for whom it is.
A chassidishe yid does not shave or trim his beard EVER! If he does, guess what? He ain’t hassidic!!
can another cop issue yoily a summons for not shaving?
Shaving is a heter. Having a beard is the norm for a Jew.
We’re playing nothing but a word game here. Religious “requirement”? Maybe not. But should one lower his/her religious standards in order to keep his/her job?
mormat, I certainly respect the minhag of keeping a beard, coming from a heimishe family myself. Yes theres a concept of minhag k’din, but there are also concepts of dina dmalchusa dina, and chillul hashem. IF he were told you must work on shabbos, or you cant wear a yarmulke, or you must eat our treife food w/ us at dunken donuts or wherever, OR ELSE you will be fined…reprimanded…etc…THEN i could understand what all the uproar would be about. But this is NOT a halachic issue, its more an issue of minhag. Yes, minhagei yisroel kedoshim heim, but if he wants to keep his beard, then let him quit his job. Theyre not discriminating against jews or anyone else, just trying to maintain uniformity.
Can you imagine a Chassidishe Medical Student or Resident saying to the Chief of Surgery, “sorry, i cant wear scrubs, I have to wear a bekeshe and a gartel while i work, thats my MINHAG?” I can tell you first-hand that this just wouldnt fly. But “sorry, I must wear my yarmulke while seeing patients?” – THATS a legitimate request, and if it wasnt honored, Chassidishe guy X would have every right to yell discrimination. Get the difference?
Mormat: What do you mean to say by minhag k’din? Do you mean that in all cases one should just follow the crowd? That seems rather ridiculous.
Cherry Hill, lighten up a little.
yoily cop is just rude change it.
For some people who don’t know:
There are Rabbis who prohibit shaving.
Thzemach Tzedek, the 3rd Lubvitcher Rebbe; Rogochover and many others hold that one is not allowed to shave – medeoraisa and not a minhag, etc.
see a Sefer Hadras Ponim Zokon by R. Moshe Weiner.
Do a little reseaerch before you say that it is a minhag or a hiddur.
Joseph, how about having a beard and shaving is the norm amongst religious jews. Why engage in divisive statements ? When one reaches the gates of shomayim , g-d will not ask, “jew, where is your beard, he will more than likely say , beard, where is your jew”.
yavreichik, there were rabbis that held machine matzos were chometz gomur. The bottom line is elu v’elu divrei elokim chaim. for one to be narrow minded and only think that its his way or the highway, they are just plain wrong.
‘Religious Jew’ is synanamous with ‘Jew’.
to “By the way BASMELECH, being a policeman is hardly goyish. 2 weeks agoes Parsha of Shoftim begins with Moshe requiring courthouses and policeman be set up in all dwelling places. Besides, he did what was right for him, I am sure he asked his Rav, so why dont we just leave him alone? He does not need judgemental people who know only how to knock everyone and everything that doesnt conform to their narrow world view of things.
Comment by torahis1 — September 4, 2007 @ 3:14 pm ”
When we had our own Jewish gov’t and ran it according to Torah law, we had our own policemen, but, to be a cop among all the “pruste” goyish ones, in a “foreign” (golus) country, we don’t need Jewish policemen. (We don’t need Jewish politicians either. It’s better for Jews to stay out of the limelight and fields where they are subject to criticism. I was always told that a Yid should have a job that is “nekiah v’Kalla” (clean and easy) It is not easy being a policeman and it could be dangerous too, so I wouldn’t consider it a choice profession for a frum Jewish man.
To Mikedrezz-
“beard, where is your jew?” Gitgezugt!
Yoily should be allowed to keep his beard. Jews should be concerned with their Midos and Mitzvos and their beards, if they choose.
joseph:
1. learn how to spell.
2. if, according to comment (36), religious jew is syanamous[sic] with jew, and (37), having a beard is the norm for a jew, that would make R’ Moshe Sherer a not a normal Jew, right? Nebuch on his children! gosh! how did they ever get married?
Every Jew should have a beard. If a Jew is missing his beard, we are dan l’kav zechus and assume he has a good reason.
But that is no reason to criticize another Jew for fighting to keep his very Jewish face.
In case Websters proves too difficult for you to determine usage, I will — out of my benevolence — reduce it to 4th grade literature for your benefit:
If someone fails to follow the ‘norm’, it does not indicate they are not ‘normal’.
Oh, and one more thing Mr. house77, if you are going to criticize others for a typo, don’t be a hypocrite about it. It was comment 27 that you are reffering to, not 37 as you typed.
Bas Melech: Who are you to tell people what kind of jobs to have? If he thinks he’ll make a good policeman and protect you, who are you to stand in his way?
first las vegas banned bearded cops and now nyc is doing the same…
if someone can prove that having a beard makes someone incapable of performomg the duties assigned to a cop, fine… until then… this whole “image” issue (“…uniformed officers look military sharp, with good grooming and crisp uniforms. Uniforms must be cleaned and pressed and shoes must be shined…”)is meaningless. is the nypd more interested in how the officers will look in photo ops than they are concerned with how they perform under the daily stress of being a cop?
house77, Ever hear the expression ‘those who live in glass houses…’ ?
Bear in mind that ad hominem remarks always tend to backfire.
‘Burd, burd, vee is der Yid’
The Satmar Rav ZYA used to say that. Whatever the case, it would be a TREMENDOUS KIDDUSH HASHEM if he would keep bis beard before his job EVEN if its not imperative.
As a side point,
I remember we were once driving back from Montreal to New York on a Friday afternoon. Anyways, it was getting late and we were getting nervous! My husband started to speed and finally a cop caught up with us . We explained to him that we must be home before sundown because of the Sabbath. Now before you all start giving me a’washing down’ while implying ‘Och, Jews think its all about them’,he was a
sympathetic GOY and freed us from the ticket.
I am wondering if Yoily would do the same!
Little Yiddle, sorry but you missed the interpretation of Minhag K’din. A minhag is not sometthing that someones does to follow a crowd. A minhag is usually instituted by our previouse gedolim or rabbanim. the term Minhag k’din is not a term that I made up, I’m sure you can look it up in seforim, G’luck!
Ed, “every jew should have a beard”, thats according to your up bringing and your rabbis. Just learn to accept that their are other types of jews who are probably a lot more g-d fearing than some WITH beards who are clean shaven. Stop this nonsense that MY way is better than yours.
Noone is stopping him from keeping his jewish face, just not while working for the NYPD . Can a school girl opt to put on her regular clothes to school when everyone else is wearing school uniform? Obviously not. So why is this case any different?
mike, drop your self-hating. You don’t have to prove yourself to your goyish neighbors.
A beard has always been a Jewish custom. Only relatively recently have some Jews been going without them. There may be a heter for it, but a beard is still the norm for the Jew.
To mikedrezz:
I was refering to people who posted comments that the beard is a minhag. I didn’t say that everyone has to have a beard.
Some Rabbis hold that it is ossur to shave, so for him it whould be same as violating koshrus, etc.
mikedrezz, You seem to have an issue with Jews an beards.
Jews and beards go hand in hand. A beard befits a Jew, and a Jew befits a beard. A Jew without a beard is missing something (perhaps with a good reason.)
Once upon a time (not too long ago), every Jewish man had a beard.
Volvie aka Ed , you attack others that have a different way of life. I am called self hating because I find nothing wrong with being clean shaven and nothing wrong with a beard.You are called rightous because a beard is the norm and being clean shaven is some kind of pegam. Go figure.
volvie aka Ed, can’t you accept any jew the way they are. Instead you must consider yourself and anyone with a beard superior. If you fail to grasp any of my statements, I will explain it to you slowly so that you might understand. I have no issue with anyone with a beard.Its their custom , I am happy for them. But if you apply for a job and the companies policies are against beards, don’t cut it off. Seek employment elsewhere. If you still don’t get it, I feel sorry for you Ed.
Flatbusher, acording to those rabbis that assur it, it is the same. For you maybe not.
Again, do a little research on it first….
It is the same as with milk:
Most Chassidish poskim will make one kosher keilim if one by mistake use cholov akum.
Litvishe will not. Why,-because some rabbis hold that it is treif to use cholov akum.
just as an aside – the chicken dealer from last year… had a beard – he was missing a heart, but he had a beard.
before, anyone attacks my post and point out all the non-bearded people that have done awful things — the point is that is not the beard or lack there of that made them behave in the way they did.
for anyone to judge anyone (negatively or positively) based on facial hair or lack there of is complete and utter nonsense!
mdlevine
If all a beard means to you is facial hair, by all means go ahead and shave. You don’t deserve to have one.
A story is told about a bearded goy who requested an audience with the Kotzker. The gabai came in to the Rebbe and announced, Rebbe a goy with a beard is here to see you. Retorted the Kotzker, He has a beard? he has hair, a Yid has a beard.
א בארד האט ער? האר האט ער
gingy – you missed the point completely – maybe others did also, so i will try to clarify it.
1) There are yidden with beards and yidden without beards. simple enough
2) having a beard does not make one a tzaddik. still simple
3) not having a beard does not make one not a tzaddik. hopefully still simple
4) those who look at someone and judge someone based on whether or not they have a beard is ONLY looking at facial hair and NOT the yid behind the beard.
re your comment about who deserves a beard — absurd!!!
The point is that beards do have religious significance and as such they can’t be discriminated against; similar to giving minors alchohol from the Kiddush cup.
Many Chassidim are clean shaven for business purposes. IN fact, there was a Satmar Chosid in Europe once who wore a toupee instead of a yarmulka because it looked more professional, WITHOUT A BEARD!
Flatbusher:
I was once at house of a Rov who wouldn’t allow his family to make a tea thru “kli shlishi with a tea bag” while I was allowed since I was told by a different Rov that there is no problem.
When I asked the one who disallowed it, he said that according to him it is boirer, bishul, etc. and he would be mechalel Shabbos. Since my Rov told me differently I can go ahead and do it.
So, am I mechalel Shabbos?
Same thing with a beard: One allows shaving, the other not. For you wearing a beard maybe is a humra/minhag, but for me and most likely for that cop it is a sin.
It goes down to keeping mitzvos.
You can look at it from this point too:
Eating kosher is a mitzvah; having beard (at least for some) it is mitzvah, saying Schema 2 times a day is a mitzvah.
So, if I would eat kosher but would not say Schema 2 times a day or say Schema, but not eating kosher, would I be an observant person or not?
Same is here, a person who holds that having a beard is a mitzvah deorisa and shaving is a negative commandment, for him it would be violating Torah, and not following all mitzvos.
I hope you understand my point.
As to your question asking chassdeshe….
If you ask him he’ll probably say no, for me he’ll yes.
I once asked a Rov about software copying, he told me that he doesn’t answer this kind of questions because most people do it and will do it, and if he makes a psak that it is prohibited, it would be a sin for them, but as of now it is like “I didn’t know”.
I don’t live in New York, but I would think that those who do would appreciate a police officer who understands the needs of the frum community and speaks yiddish. I also think that the story’s headline is degrading. To refer to him as “Yoily cop” makes it sound like he’s a cartoon character,and that’s not at all respectful.