Reply To: Why Would a Girl Even Want to Learn Talmud?

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LevAryeh
Member

I don’t respect all of the opinions written here, so I don’t expect you to respect mine. But I did read all the posts written here, so I expect you to read mine.

The Gemara itself says, “If you are a woman, put me down.”

Kol hamelamed es bito Torah (shba’al peh) k’ilu milamda tiflus. Look up the Rambam and the Shulchan Aruch, where tiflus is translated to either mean apikorsus or divrei hevel.

(If you want ma’areh mekomos justifying women learning Gemara, look up the [somewhat controversial] Torah Temimah on “Veshinantam levanecha”, which is the pasuk we darshan “V’lo l’vnosecha” from.)

You may have cute answers for the Rambam’s lashon, but the fact is that the overwhelming majority of Rishonim, Acharonim and Poskim agree that women should not learn Gemara, period.

For now, let’s work without your approach, which you haven’t provided a source for, that this is only talking about a father teaching his daughter. We can break it down as follows.

You stated that having a deeper and more logical understanding of what Judaism is about would inspire you and strengthen your Emunah, as it were. According to this, fewer boys should go off the derech than girls. Since there are definitely some (probably most) among us who go off because they just don’t “feel it”, boys, who learn Gemara, should be less prone to going off in the first place. The numbers will prove that this is not true.

I don’t mean to attack, but I think your entire line of reasoning is based on a false premise. I do believe I have a right to say this, however, because I do actually learn Gemara (I’m seven blatt away from finishing Bava Kama) and can testify that it is 100% true.

The things which learning Gemara accomplishes within a person have nothing to do with intellect. Ameilus b’Torah, Mesiras Nefesh for Torah, and Torah Mitoch Had’chak are not just nice things. They are the only way to learn Gemara. Look at the 48 kinyanei Torah. Again, they aren’t merely helpful suggestions for success; they are the only method to gain from Torah, as an absolute rule.

The only reason Torah brings you closer to God is because you are connecting yourself to Hashem’s Da’as, in the way He commanded you to. (See the beginning of Nefesh HaChaim for an in-depth explanation.)

Learning Gemara for intellectual stimulation will not bring you closer to God. I personally know Mechallelei Shabbos who learn a lot of Gemara, and could rip anyone to shreds in lumdus.

This could evolve into a discussion about Artscroll and what that did to Ameilus Batorah, but let’s not go there.

Assuming you believe the Rambam when he says in his hakdama that everything written in the Gemara is a Halacha l’Moshe Misinai, Hashem Himself said on Har Sinai that the closeness a woman attains through learning will not be accomplished by learning Gemara. I’m assuming you don’t think that you know better.

On another note, here’s a cute story a friend of mine told me: A rabbi from a Modern Orthodox school was arguing with another rabbi about women learning Gemara. He said that in his schools, they have classes where both the boys and the girls learn Gemara, and the girls actually scored higher than the boys.

“Of course,” replied the other rabbi. “The girls were looking at the Gemara, and the boys were looking at the girls!”