Reply To: The Dov Lipman Response�Controversial?

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#955603
HaKatan
Participant

Just Emes, the core issues of the oaths applies to both Zionism in general and the State of Israel in particular.

The Brisker Rov, among others, quoted at that same Knessiah (I think) said even if it were run “al pi Torah” and had gedolim at its helm, it would still be assur to found that State.

You’re also mixing up living there individually or in small groups with CH”V violating the oaths. That the Gra and Baal Shem sent talmidim there, then, is also irrelevant because doing so did not violate the oaths, unlike Zionism and Israel which did and does.

You wrote:

“the gemarah says that when EY starts blooming again we have entered the stages of geula and after hundreds of years of desolation the land is green and flowing – proving that this was a positive development.”

This is not emes. The gemara, of course, is. The land certainly does seem to be “green and flowing”. But your conclusion, however, is your own. The land blooming does not mean it was muttar to disregard the oaths and vaChai baHem and viNishmartem and whatever else, even if that would mean that we would “enter the stage of the geulah”. Other than for pikuach nefesh, you’re not allowed to do any aveiros no matter how wonderful you think the outcome will be.

As an example, Eishes Potiphar also had a good cheshbon: she knew that she and Yosef HaTzaddik were going to have a common descendent who would be a tzaddik. She had a nevuah! So, according to your logic, this should have allowed Yosef to live with her. Yet he obviously didn’t because doing so was wrong. It’s Hashem’s cheshbon to make that nevuah happen. It so happens that it came true via his marriage to Osnas.

The ends don’t justify the means, and, in this case, both the ends and means of Zionism and the State have been disastrous for our people, despite the Yeshivos and learning there.