In regards to yesterday’s thread about the Catskills, we can report to you that Boruch Hashem major efforts are being made by askonim and organizations under the direct guidance of Hagoan Rav Dovid Feinstein Shlita to provide safe-kosher-and enjoyable entertainment for our kids on Motzei Shabbos in the Catskills. These events provide alternatives to the horrors of the streets. Sponsors are needed as these costs rise and if anyone is interested in becoming a sponsor contact [email protected].
In is interesting to note that Hagoen Rav Dovid Feinstein HIMSELF wrote out a check for $1,000 towards this cause – which is literally Pikuach Nefoshos!
Note: Entertainment has been scheduled for this Motzei Shabbos, but due to the request of the Askonim and Gedolim – the location cannot be mentioned here.
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67 Responses
Boruch Hashem, people are taking steps in the right direction. More impotantly, it is being done under the hadrocha of Gedolim.
The only issue that I think still needs to be brought up is – what are we doing to prevent kids from going off in the first place?
If we take proper steps to detect which kids need additional “tipul” in the younger grades, & provide them with mentors, etc. – at an early stage – BEFORE THEY GO OFF – perhaps this situation will be prevented in the future.
Is this for all teens or only those at risk? We seem to only address issues once there is a crisis, not when an ounce of prevention could still make a difference. If it’s for “regular” teens, has anyone banned it yet? While I hate to be a cynic, bans on Kosher entertainment like those that have come out lately engender the crisis we are now dealing with.
an Israeli Yid
With all due respect to everyone involved, I think you missed the point which was interlaced dozens of times in yesterday’s comments. A “kosher hangout” option is a nice component but it’s not a solution, it’s an afterthought to try to re-coop. The real solutions need to take place at home and in school. You can open as many kosher pool halls as you want, but the regular ones will still be open and kids will still go there if they don’t care enough about themselves to not go. Again, with great respect and appreciation to those involved in this effort, may I suggest that we need a long term solution for a long term problem, not a short term solution to a long term problem? Throwing some money at kosher entertainment is a good tool, but let’s make sure it’s not a distraction to take our focus off the hard work WE need to do at home and in our schools to really get to the bottom of this. We need to figure out how to raise kids that make good choices.
Boruch hashem, thank you for ensuring that the young adults have a kosher leisure outlet. Not at all surprise that this is under the supervision of Reb Dovid shlita.
what about when the summers over (very soon) will “they” provide kosher entertainment for kids on the streets in Brooklyn, Lakewood Etc??
Yes-we`do need a long term solution however we are forgetting the fact that there are plenty of “regular – not at risk” teenagers at these venues as well.The concept of opening the kosher entertainment will at least give s/t for these young adults to do so they wont join the less fortunate at the non-kosher places. Its 1000% true that most of the at risks will not come to the new places b/c precisely that – they are kosher thus lacking the thrill and “fun” that a lot of them are seeking but on the other hand a lot of precious neshamos will be saved.Kudos to the organizers!
Many of our parents or grandparents were moser nefesh to build yeshivos, pay schar limud, keep shabbos, kosher, and taharas mishpachah, in order that we should be provided all our needs. We too want to provide our children with all their needs including: Succos in Israel, mid-winter in Florida, Pesach in Switzerland, Shavuous in the mountains, summer camp, their own rooms, i-pods, cell phones, and computers. All this “quality time” allows us to be fully involved in our chesed programs, shiurim for women, shmiras haLashon seder, bikur cholim, Daf HaYomi, parlor meetings, friends’ simchos, etc.
HaShem can be found wherever we let Him in. V’hamavin yavin.
May we all have a kesivah v’chasimah tovah full of simchah and nachas. May this year be one when all Yiddishe tzoros (r”l) will end and we will all witness the revelation of Malchuso Yisborach.
if you don’t mention address, how will they know where to go?
I think its a great idea but we have to stop it before it gets to this position.The best place to fix it would be the Yeshivas but try and speak to the yeshivas……….they need to concentrate on all the kids and not the ones which tip the Rebbes. Also they need phisical exericse part of yeshiva life
Tek:
Point taken, I’m sorry if it was not more clear, I think we are 100% on the same page.
Of course there is great value to creating safety nets for the “regular-not at risk” kids, my point simply is that in reality all kids are “at risk” so we need to be working on ways to be proactive from day one instead of just being re-active. With all the money and efforts poured in to recovering “at risk” kids (very important and special work), some more efforts on correcting the source issues would be a good investment as well. Safety nets are great, but we still need to train the next generation to swim in the big sea.
Like you said “Kudos to the organizers!” but lets not stop here.
I dont understand whats going on here.
Dont the rabonim understand that when these teenagers get together they learn from each other. #1 you must get these kids away from each other not just girls from boys. If one boy is involved with girls and one is involved with drugs than when they get together at kosher entertainment they will find each other and make plans so that they will both do drugs & both be involved with girls.
My family has been involved for years with “these type of teens” and the first thing they need is seperation from the “group”/”chevra”.
The way to do this is with money – every teenager needs money and wants money. we haveto pay the teens to go good places away from the chevra with good people, then we can let the potion of torah take over slowly.
Many kids have been saved in this manner.
But please stop putting these kids together to meet.
Thanks
Shmuel99: I don’t think this entertainment is being provided for youth that necessarily log on to theyeshivaworld.com. That’s all these askonim would need – is thousands of yentas driving by to check out what they’re doing!
I think its a great idea to have a kosher outlet for kids at risk to go to. However, with all due respect to the gedolim involved in this project, I think someone missed the boat on this one. Kids that are snorting drugs outside a pool hall at 3am don’t have a problem finding outlets, kosher or not. The problems with these kids run much deeper. Whether it be a Rebbe, their parents or whatever else they want to blame it on I am not here to say but how can anyone really think that keeping these kids busy for a few hours a week is ultimately going to solve the ‘at-risk’ problem?
One final thing: Any parent who read the remarks from kids formerly on the fringe should take out one thing, they didn’t feel loved or good about themselves. Tell your kids how much you love them, feeling it isn’t enough!!
#11 You are so wrong they will never leave each other
sorry #14, however these supposed friends are fake. And for the right offering they would leave them very very fast.
Kol ha k’vod to Rav Feinstein. As to location, ikds know where kids go. As to root cause(s), it starts at home. I look out mny window, I walk on my “frum” street, and I see the beginnings.
Mothers on cell phones while pushing strollers, while kids in strollers need sometome to look at and talk to. People in supermarkets talking shopping lists – loudly on cel phones – while pushing shopping carts into people, “slit skirts” on “frum” young -and not so young ladies, non-Jewish baby sitters shlepping strollers with beautiful Jewish neshamas while dressed (somewhat) in blatantly vulgar styles, tatties in shul ‘chepping’ kids too young to be at ease in shul…
We are very rich in gashmiyut, but where is the continuing awareness of Hakadosh Baruch Hu? The time has come when no one can give tochaha because “no one will accept it”.
No doubt Moshiach is coming sooner than expected, but how prepared are we?
it is amazing to see how much interest has been generated i just hope all of the readers will do as i have and donate generously to the site posted above [email protected]. I have chosen to match horav dovid shlitas $1000.00. I am told that between the facility rentals and the kosher entertainment & food and transportation being given to the young men and women this lifesaving project will cost over $30,000.00 and lets not forget the dedicated mechanchim who are there all night spending time with the kids if only 1000 of us would give even $50 or $100 besides just reading and commenting(and more if you are able)our zechus would be immeasurable and the organizations impact would be greatly improved
I thought the gedolim just banned concerts (even separate ones). Is this not kosher entertainment?? WHAT IS?? So if a boy or girl who’s on the fringe of becoming at risk can blow off some steam going to a Jewish concert – where should good kids who need an outlet go??? Everything is ASSUR. I remember they had the circus in MSG, the Rabonim said ASSUR, concerts, ASSUR, pool halls, ASSUR, pizza stores, ASSUR and the list goes on!! Can someone please tell me a good KOSHER entertainment that is MUTTER? Something a kid (who hasn’t YET gone off) can do once in a while???!!!!
Please note that we do not want to publicize the location of these events because, if you’d kindly refer to the previous thread regarding this matzav, the kids who want to find these parties – will find them regardless! We do NOT want to attract those who never would have never gone to those horrific parties – those kids, Baruch Hashem have made better choices. We are simply offering an alternative.
#18 I agree its a huge issue
This just doesn’t seem to be an answer at all.
First of all, I will reintegrate my comments from yesterday.
— Why are kids/teens allowed to be out and about at 1AM?
— Who thinks its OK to let kids go to the ‘country’ alone for a few days or a Shabbos?
Now.. Does anyone really believe that kids who like to hang out and smoke on the streets at 1AM are really going to a place of “kosher entertainment”? Are you kidding? These kids exhibit ‘at-risk’ behavior, as a way to rebelling, getting a bunch of Rabbonim to serve pizza and blare loud Avraham Fried music isn’t going to attract them.
Please take the $30K and buy food for some poor families for the upcoming Yom Tovim, then be sure your kids are in bed at 1AM.
Chaim Yankel
Your wrong first of all its not pizza its not bearded rabbis its chilled out rabbis that understand guys its in a pool hall not a bais medrash . and its not going to be freed playing it will be more chilled out music and for some boys its a huge benefit especially the frumer boys who just want to hang out a little so instead of doing it in a pool hall with girls it will be just with guys.
fyi
there are places for after the summer both in brooklyn and l’kwd for these kids at risk that have been around for many years
as many of you know
a good morning /a hello /a sincere interest on our part/ a listening ear is what these kids need and we can all do our part even by just doing the above. it goes a long way though we may not see the fruits of our efforts until many years later
The danger is not only in the Catskills. There you see it. I would like to bring up another terrible trend that is taking place amongst our youth and it is not kids at risk this time. During Bein Hazmanim and during times like Purim and erev Yom TOv many bachurim are sent or just come on their own to places like California. What do you think that your wonderful bachur who sits and learns all year long and who watches his eyes does. He forgets that their is a Rebono Shel Olom here too. These wonderful bachurim may collect money for their Yeshiva, but at the end of the day they go to places we who live here do not take our bachurim. Many of our finest end up at concerts and amusement parks that are totally not the place for a frum bachur.
Parents and Rosh Yeshivas please remember that Hollywood is the mekor of Tuma. We who live here work very hard on our children’s Kedusha. Please don’t jeprodize yours.
GREAT IDEA:
I think this is a great idea, and it’s important that people are being proactive about this. But again these are the symptoms not the problem. TO set up kosher recreation is a start but that’s dealing with it on a surface level. I think the biggest problem is parenting and we are afraid to admit it.
CHILUK:
In the original article, the letter mentioned kids “snorting drugs”. There is a big diffreence between good kids trying out some fun by hanging out and kids “snorting drugs”. For the latter, this is not a one time deal and shooting pool is not as exciting as drugs and girls. It’s NOT. You can set up kosher recreation and for “good kids” this is very good idea, but the kids who are “hanging out” with girls and doing drugs and girls who are dressed inappropriately, well, they are going to need a lot more than a kosher pool hall, wedding dancing, shiurim, basketball etc. For those kids they already have a probem. I remember when I was in high school (mid 90’s). My friends who were involved with this stuff were kids who suffered emotionally and this was their way at “getting back at their parents” or feeling like they were alive. The clubs, bars, and other places not conducive for our children are the VENUE, not the REASON why they go off the derech. If they are not going to a bar then they’ll be michallel shabbos b’tzina.
REITERATION:
Again I agree that kids need outlets and for the “good kids”, this is healthy and constructive, but the kids “snorting drugs” are not going to go every motzei shabbos to a kosher gym and pizza. This is not the 1950’s and we don’t live in a vacuum. And by the way many “good kids” also have issues. Just because you go to minyan and sedarim, and learn mussar seder doesn’t mean they have healthy self esteem and/or feel that TORAH is “Mesukim m’dvash”
UNDERLYING ROOT AND POSSIBLE SOLUTION
Yes, our society has become decadent. And yes, teens have instant access to an array of improper mediums of fun. HOWEVER, concerning both groups but in particular, the second group I mentioned “snorting drugs” group, there’s a reason why they are rebelling and trying alternative ways of life. (Again I’m not talking about a kid who drinks with his friends at a kiddush or at a tisch which can be problematic also). Kids who are addicted to drugs, alcohol, gambling and pornography/sexual impropriety have much greater underlying issues than just “no place to have kosher fun”. Like I mentioned above when I was in high-school my friends who were addicted or hanging out with the wrong crowd were kids who had emotional problems and little self esteem. They were looking for an identity. Unfortunately, in the wrong place. This by the way is not so much a religious issue. I remember in elementary school, there was a girl in my class (it was co-ed) who came from a conservative family (religiously conservative) who didn’t didn’t know what shmiras hamitzvos was but she grew up in a house where there was respect and emotional sensitiveity towards their children. A healthy balance between independance and instruction and she was the girl who really fel adamant about girls dressing like prostitutes (how ironic).
Parents need to care about their children’s religious and spiritual growth as well as their EMOTIONAL sensitivities. Instead of worrying about their own family’s reputation and concerned about their kids getting into the “best yeshiva” (whatever that means)and instead thinking about what’s best for their child. Although we should want our children to become great not every child is going to become the gadol ha’dor and that’s fine. Not every kid is going to get an A in every class. There is this odd notion that because there is mitzvah of “kabed es avicha…” that parents don’t have to have respect for their children. Granted that they aern’t obligated in the same way, but we are obligated to respect everyone and our children should be at the top of that list.
Dr. Benzion Sorotzkin has written articles on this topic that really are on the mark. Dr.Sorotzkin.com In particular “The Deinal of History: Clinical Implications of Child Abuse” is a great read.
“Mi K’amcha Yisroel” We have the potential to help our children. We are a great nation adn our children are great. But “great” means somehting different for every kid. HaShem should grant us siatta d’shmaya so that we don’t have to read articles like this anymore.
#7, Shauli, I’m glad that some of us think alike!
aziaziamps, I just read what you wrote I agree 100%. I didn’t mention that in my post above. Well Put.
Moshe
Chill Out – I wasn’t saying it was beared Rabbis or just pizza. It is the idea that these kids will come at all.
As the next commentor mentioned, there are places like this in Lkwd, Bklyn, etc.. all year long and they attract a few people each week. Nothing like the ‘hundreds’ or dozens’ that we have heard about throughout the summer.
I know these ppl mean well, but this really isn’t the answer.
I go back to my original thesis.. why are kids out and about at 1AM?
i think frumblogger is ABSOLUTELy correct!!! its pathetic how everything is assured!!
everyone needs a kosher outlet – but unfortunately none exist – not even reading harry potter 😉
if a child does want to go to one of the kosher chol hamoed eventssomething he is made to feel “treif” because of it!
its very sad.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I have read your comments and alas, I must say, you are all so naive. All those boys and girls that want to hang together will find a way. Nothing any Rav or anyone else will do will stop them. And on another note, several years ago, my wife and I befriended a young man – about 18 or 19 at the time who was hanging out at clubs, etc. As it turns out, he is the son of a VERY PROMINENT Rav. When we asked him about his rebellious behavior, he told us that his parents were so busy with everyone else’s issues, they never had time for him. You walk down any street and see posters for all kinds of shiurim, etc. Here’s a great idea for all you parents – instead of running to every one of those shiurim, spend a night with your kids as they are growing up. At least one night every week. learn with them, play with them, talk to them. DON’T IGNORE THEM!!! The Rabbonim cannot fix what’s already broken beyond repair. Nuff said.
Chaim Yankel:
go ahead and give or encourage people to give 30k to poor families but, don’t ever tell people not to give to this. Even if this whole idea only gets 1 kid frum again, it’s worth every penny.
Just be careful what you say because people listen even if you’re not so serious.
Why can’t some gishmake parents get together with a guitar and a bbq and just chill with the kids? Trust me from experience kids love that chill!
>Even if this whole idea only gets 1 kid frum again, it’s worth every penny
How do you know?
one of the best ideas in yesterday’s thread was: get jobs! I worked when I was a teenager….sure I partied, but….I had to get to sleep & work. And I was fired when I wasn’t serious.
Pinchas HaKohen did action when it required action. Imagine if there were those of B’Y’ standing around and saying, “it’s never gonna work, I wouldn’t start up w/ him..etc”.
Under the guidance of our gedolim, shlita, there is a positive action being done, and Im Yirtzeh HaShem, it will bear fruit. Let’s daven that this will help Yiddishe neshomos. Even one kapitel Tehillim!
frumblogger (comment 18): Mutar entertainment suggestions? An exercise activity- with friends or without, indoors or outdoors, (a local schoolyard; at the Kosher Gym if you live in Flatbush, just request that they turn off the television first, although it is censored); biking or hiking: if you live in the city, you can hike/bike across your local bridge (though I don’t know what’s on the other end of the Verrazzano)- we did that many a time for “entertainment” in our teenage years. In our isolated community, there wasn’t much available entertainment-wise, and even the spunkiest, wildest fun-seeking kids (and adults) enjoyed walking over the bridge (as a group) and picnicing and/or playing ball in the park at the other side. Incidentally, despite (because of?) our dearth of entertainment sites, the kids in our community turned out pretty OK, Boruch Hashem. I guess they used their creativity to find outlets for letting off steam.
BTW, a local Chessed org. (Tomchei Shabbos, a gemach for any item, the JCC- paperwork, phones) is often a fun place for teenagers to help out (or can be made into one).
I’d love to hear other ideas, too.
Chaim yankel
There are people that will go to these kosher places other then going to party’s that are not kosher there is no doubt about it, not every one but even if its a few its awesome
Frumblogger and the like,
Do the goyim (where nothing is sacred, and everything is Muttar) have any less problems with their teens being living on the edge?
HONESTLY, you know the answer…and you know why…because it has nothing to do with things that should be assur being assur. Obviously if someone has a special need, after seeking the counsel of a wise person, exceptions are made. That doesn’t dictate that our Gedolim should supress their wisdom on issues which they can see CLEARLY on, from THEIR vantage point.
You got me wrong!!
Here’s my pos (#13) from yesterdays thread:
SOLUTION # 1 is VARMKEIT = YIDISHKEIT
YES a rebbe schmozzing with a talmid over a bowl of cholent, with his arm around the kid is something NEEDED TODAY!! Its not just for the ‘at risk kid’ but for ALL kids, no matter what, when and where they are on the ‘yidishkeit’/ ‘frumkeit’ level.
YES, a parent should stop focusing on whether his son gets good grades in gemarah, or can make a ‘layning’ etc. – FIRST and FORMOST in TODAYS society is preserving our YIDISHKEIT. Making being a YID a GESHMAKER ‘thing’ – and that includes some levity and WARM heimishekeit with our kids. STOP demanding and putting ALL EMPHASIS on ‘grades’ and forcing our kids to be ‘studious’ – yes its important, but not the EIKAR in raising our kids to be EHRLICHA YIDDIN, and to LOVE to be a YIDDIN. SING zemiros by the table, stop being so KALT about yidishkeit, make yiddishkeit a WARM geshmake lifestyle!!!
This must start in kindergarden ALL THE WAY THROUGH the child gets married!! NO STOPPING!!!
— end of yesterdays post—
I AGREE there should be a VARMKEIT (if need be, playing pool w/ your rebbi is ok) but these kids (and kids on the verge of becoming ‘at risk’) aren’t stupid, they see a double standard. For the at risk guys a concert is MUTER, and for everyone else its ASSUR. – so they can reason to themselves, “ok, ill become ‘at risk’ to go to a concert, because now its assur, and ill get kicked out of yeshiva…when I join THEM it will be MUTER??!!”
What kind of confusing messages are we sending our youth!!!
REMEMBER: VARMKEIT = YIDISHKEIT = LOVE FOR YIDISHKEIT = LOVE FOR HASHEM, HIS TORAH & MITZVOS!!!
The last mishna in the 2nd perek of Pirkei Avos states:
הוא היה אומר לא עליך המלאכה לגמור. ולא אתה בן חורין ליבטל ממנה
Don’t say “I don’t want to start because I can’t finish” and don’t throw in the towel and say “I can’t finish, so why continue” The goal is not to finish! The goal is to start and do to the best of your ability. Hashem will do the rest.
Our Jewish Kids are worth every penny and effort. Make it priority #1 (That’s why Rabbi Shaya Cohen of the 5towns calls his yeshiva, Priority 1)
Chiller – Its not awesome that some 18 year old kid is out at 1AM and has a choice to make as to go to a party with beer and drugs or a party with pool and kosher pizza and a ‘cool, chilled rabbi’.
Again.. Parents need to be parents. Do not let the kids out at night, then no one needs to drop $30K on this project.
These same parents bought water filters and stopped eating strawberries, I’m sure a Rav could carefully explain to then (why they would need this explained is beyond me!) why watching your kids at night is more important than strawberries….
Chaim Yankel
do you remember you older teen years???
if my parents would have tried to stop me i would have rebeld. like this i hung out and chilled with my friends. and since there is nothing in these towns (fallsberg woodburn montecllo librty) you end up getting burned rather then chilled.
so a kosher hang out under rabinacal supervition is a much needed thing in the mountens
When I was younger, I was too tired from work, and some time in Bet Midrash to look for these things
In is interesting to note that Hagoen Rav Dovid Feinstein HIMSELF wrote out a check for $1,000 towards this cause – which is literally Pikuach Nefoshos!
We can learn alot from Reb Dovid’s normalicy. He let his sons go to ball games he himself went to the grand canyon a few years ago while visiting a friend in Pheonix during bein hazamanim. Many of his closest freinds are the bal habatim he grew up with. Untill a few years ago he loaded the soda machine in MTJ. and he wears a short jacket and a straw hat in the summer. His sons and son in law learn but do various things to make money (lulovim,insurance, hasgacha)
Maybe that is the message frum kids in America today need: be normal don’t worry about externals live simply and you can acheive great things.
its funny how everybody they know the right way to help kids on the streets im there and i can tell u that these rabbis are doing a great job helping us its called unconditional love. so if you really want to help them, then get them involved with my rabbis who are the best the rabbis of my school yeshiva ohr yitzchak
i know from experience and not somebody in my family works with these kids or somebody in my family was one of these kids I AM one of these kids and i can tell that what these rabbis are doing is the best thing for us. anyone that wants can come to yeshiva ohr yitzchak day or night and witness for yourselves that talking to these kids and caring for them actually works i hope this gets back to my rabbis because its about time that they get some recognition
DOOBS
I agree with #44 -Its important to show kids that you can be frum & normal at the same time. You can still have fun (travel, sports,eat out,bike,hike,skate,jetski,parasail etc..) in kosher ways . I think Im going to make a donation to this organization- I think the mitzvah is even greater then pikuach nefesh bec here u have the potential to save s/o from spiritual harm-& save him his portion in the world to come . PS Providing kosher entertainment DOES work , those of u that are familiar with OHR NAAVA should take a look @ its success rate u would think why should chilled out gals want to go to a place to hear shiurim & get pizza-but the 100’s of girls that show up there nightly are testimony to the fact that if kosher entertainment is provided-it will yield results!! Thank you Rabbi Wallerstein & all Ohr Naava faculty members!! PS those of you interested Ohr Naava is open to all girls/women age 18 & up Its on ave V & E .23rd (they have nightly activities also) I dont think the Editor lets us post websites but maybe he’ll let this one since its a free organization -no profits are being made-Its Ohrnaava.com
wow i just logged on and i see that some of my friends are actually getting out there and finally standing up for my rabbis i mean were the ones theyre doing it for and i can tell you that last weekend at hi-cue was a true kiddush hashem what a change from what hi-cue was from week to week
once were mentioning yeshiva ohr yitzchak lets not forget r’ berry and r’ shloimy gross who were the ones that actually put themselves in danger (literally) and for everybody who says that these rabbis have no clue what theyre doing i want to know of any other rabbi who is willing to get punched in the face and beat up in order to try to help these boys i have known rabbi berry on a personal level for the past 4 years and i owe him my life for all that he has done for me and of course rabbi wallerstein(s), Rabbi groner and all the rebbeim of yeshiva ohr yitzchak
ok folks – who here with kids in the young teen /preteen set have actually talked them about hangouts and drugs and what to be aware of.
many of these kids feel like they don’t “belong” or “fit in”. the drug crowd similar to the gang crowd are always all smiling and welcoming when they see a new potential member of the family. we need to point out the warning signs of danger zones to our kids before they find them on their own.
on the radio they have a commercial where the tag line is “parents the anti-drug”
it may be uncomfortable and you might think that maybe you are giving them ideas that they NEVER would have heard of if you didn’t mention them — talk to them in love and warmth and in a non-threatening environment.
hatzlocha rabba and may we all only here b’soros tovas from all and about all Yidden.
The Religious Zionist solution is to have boys and girls together in healthy supervised activities like at Bnei Akiva’s Camp Moshava.
I didn’t read all the comments but zipped down here after reading the first few. I apologize if I’m repeating what others may haev said.
1) “Kosher hangout” is an oxymoron. Hanging out is not Kosher nor Jewish. Having a pool hall with “Kosher hours” and telling a kid that it’s OK to play pool and to be in such a location place in the first place, will lead to go back when their are not kosher hours and not people “hanging” there. There is multi- billion dollar industry in America that should be called “wasting time”. But it was given the much more appealing name “Entertainment”! Children must be taught that we must thank Hashem from the bottom of our hearts for Sports. Why? because the time, effort, thought, & money, that a nochri invests in sports in America, is the same time, effort, thought, & money, that he would have spent on a pogrom in der heim. Chasdei hashem ki lo sumni, that they have what to be occupied with in America. ASH”V A Jew should needs to play sports? wasting time is not a Jewsih pursuit. But BOH”R many have adopted Goyisha values. The need to have FUN! .i.e., waste time. The Chofetz Chaim Z”L writes that reading a newspsper is assur altz wasting time and bittul Torah. A Jew should play Goyisha ball games? Collect baseball cards? Thereby being Machshiv a group of people that even by Goyish standards includes some of the biggest criminals and people with the worst middos on the face of the earth. Go to baseball games? R’ Moshe Z”L was no fool. he never went to a ball game but he wrote attendance at such a place is: Litzinus and “Hasata L’ariyus”.(Ig.M. vol 8, 14?) Children should be taught to make use of their time. Not everybody’s a learner? Fine. say tehillim. In days of yore the simplest Jew new tehillim ba’al peh. Where did that go? it took a back seat to baseball take a hobby. Learn to plant a garden, read books, build model airplanes, cooking (Boys should not exclude themselves from this possibility for two reasons. 1. survival in Yeshiva away from home.
2. cooking may wind up to be a lifelong Job and camps, yeshivas, caterers, restaurants need cooks.) learn to speak a foreign language (preferably one that could be used in chinuch or kiruv.) STAY AWAY FROM COMPUTERS! If a young person is learning secretarial skills on a computer, make sure it IS NOT CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET AND DELETE ALL THE GAMES FIRST! DO NOT TEACH A CHILD THAT IT IS OK TO SIT AND WASTE HOURS AND HOURS PLAYING COMPUTER GAMES! IT IS NOT OK! We need the community to take part in restoring the “apprentice programs” of old. A child will have a lot more from working as an apprentice in a business then he will from going to camp and learning all the various ways there are to waste time.
Our youth are helpless unless our Rabbanim knock sense into the foolish parents of our generation to be strict with their children and do not let them hang around the mountains. Many parents from regular families even give their 16 year old children their car to go on a couple day trip, were is the parents שכל, take a trip down to California… and see for yourself whats going on.
If a your son needs to get out, get him a job in responsible camp, don’t let him be delivery boy and hang around.
Regarding “kosher entertainment”, now its מותר for your child to mingle with the boys and girls he would have to go to a pool hall to meet.
these kids need to be loved & feel wanted
it is very hard for their parents to do so with other kids at home that may take the wrong message from the parents reaction.
we should each try to help one such teen & slowly but surely we will prevail
we also do not have to wait for them to be totally helpless, you can be nice to your neighbors kids & teens at shul that look like they can use a kind word- it wont hurt anyone!
in the zechus of helping other’s may hashem watch our children
53 you may or may not be right. However just as the Sedrai Aish matered a cetin amount of truvous for Kiruv rechokim maybe the gedolim in America have to matyr a certain amount of “hanging out” for kiruv krovvim
now that its over where was it??
# 18 — “Can someone please tell me a good KOSHER entertainment that is MUTTER? Something a kid (who hasn’t YET gone off) can do once in a while???!!!!”
Since this IS “The YW”, I feel the following statement should be understood and appreciated by most of us. Fun should NEVER be an ideal/goal. Self-gratification, unproductive activities can only lead to a bitter end — “batalah ma’viah lidei shimum.” Adam la’amal yilod. Human activities, and those of mitzvah observant families especially, must be challenging and productive if they are to be enjoyable and fulfilling.
We must express to our children in our actions and words that (1) they ARE our Priority 1 — this can only be done if we make time for them, listen to them, do things with them, eat meals with them, etc., (2) Yiddishkeit is geshmak, (3) they are the am ha’nivchar and the purpose of creation.
I think part of the problem is that many people I know have a tzadick complex; they are so trained about the horrors of aveiros that they can’t imagine and admit that they do any serious ones. Eventually, they may be oiver on many serious sins and it doesn’t hit them. They are righteous and must be so no matter what they do, so they can do anything.
Yeshivos should rather stress that the yetzer hara is very strong, and we all do many aveiros (even walking into Target is a sin) and should first and foremost be humbled by it. At this point, we have a chance.
#59 Walking into Target is an aveirah? So I guess most Frum Yidden are off the Derech?
You see! That is the problem!!! People think that an aveira means that your off the derech. Many people do aveiros every day. Hopefully we have a limud zechus that we live in a kupah shel zonos. We should be humbled by our many sins (listening to the radio is a sin) and try our best and hope for the best.
Yes, walking into Target is a sin. The one I know of has these very large not tzinus posters all over the place. The gemarah says its a sin to go there even if you don’t look (if there is another way), kal vachomer if you do look.
I’m not being self righteous. I go to Target and listen to the radio. But I am sad about my spiritual lackings and am humbled by it. If we were all so humbled, there would be less sinas chinam and moshiach would come.
Another part of the problem is that “frum” does not mean “frum” anymore. Nowadays, “frum” is a culture and bears no significance to ones religious observance. There is a vast amount of such “frumkeit,” and many others get caught up with them.
The solution that I see is similar to an article in Mishpacha about rent control. The gedolim must rally their communities to impose a curfew, and all who violate it should bear serious consiquences.
Personally, I can’t stand bidieved solutions. Many kiruv camps etc. really on them, and I believe they cause more problems than they solve.
There are lichatchila solutions, if only anybody had the guts to try them.
Watered down religion is good for no one. Let the chips fall where they may.
The truth is that I do believe in one bedieved solution (based on the gemarah). And that is, if people can not control their urge to sin, let them sin in private and know that thay are sinning and be humbled by it. The humility that is gained by the recognition of ones sins does wonders.
not everyone can learn all day those that dont should still get good shidduchim and not be treated like second class citizens
I don’t claim to have any experience with the at risk or nearly at risk crowd. I am curious at what those who are experts think in regard to the following – if some high profile principals were to show up outside the pool hall where the chilul Hashem has been taking place would that serve as a deterrent to the “regular kids” who were just stopping by? Would a “camera crew” on the scene be enough to activate a sense of “yiras bosor vodom” in the “regular yeshiva and Bais Yaakov” type to avoid being seen in the wrong place?
After reading some of the comments I now understand why the problem is growing. Perhaps all of these frummies may learn from the Brisker rov who is reported to have said Frum a galach ken zein frum, a yid daf zein ehrlich.
KOVOD HABRIOS should help
I would like to thank everyone who posted comments and ideas how wonderful it is that yidden are working towards a goal. just a short answer to #66… having to have been involved with this particular pool hall (which of course we wont mention for reasons mentioned above) cameras and principles are not the solutions most of the boys and girls havent or arent part of a school system anymore that means they fair no one on that note it is b’h Baruch Hashem under control bieng that the pool hall has been rented out and the only people allowed in are those involved already and of course the boys. I’m asking people who warent involved wit hthe program before not to show up it makes the job more difficult having ot have to stop you by the door and you nudging us to let you in, its a private affair we are not looking for onlookers.