According to the Times Herald Record, Fallsburg Police have arrested five men after getting complaints about a house on Laural Avenue in South Fallsburg where kids were being served alcohol and people were smoking marijuana.
When police arrived, they broke up a large party at the house, and arrested five men. The oldest people at the party had supplied the alcohol to the younger party-goers, all summer residents.
#### ####, 18, and #### #####, 18, both of Brooklyn, and #### #####, 21, of Monsey were charged with misdemeanors of endangering the welfare of a minor, unlawfully dealing with a child and possession of stolen property.
#### #####, 18, of Brooklyn was charged with misdemeanor obstruction of governmental administration. A 17-year-old Brooklyn boy was charged with unlawful possession of marijuana, a violation. All five are free pending appearances in Fallsburg Town Court.
(Record On Line)
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46 Responses
How is it that the adult owners of the house either allowed or were unaware of this party?
That’s all we need.
The Kids at Risk situation stems from the conformity and uniformity rules in Brooklyn and other frum communities.
Kids are a failure at worst, or a mediocrity at best, and a Nebach unless they’re “TOP” and desirous of the Kollel lifestyle.
We do it to ourselves. Lack of self esteem = hopelessness = depression.
this, if true, is disgraceful.
Any person supplying dangerous, illegal substances to any person,is a RODEF ,its a Mitzvah of Ubearta Hara Mikirbecha eradicate the bad from within you.
LET EVERYONE KNOW THE NAMES. let them be ashamed to walk between our kids.
Anyone who is shocked and completely surprised that these things go on needs to pull their head out of the clouds and wonder what their own kids are up to! Wake up… this is not about “them” and some crazy isolated incident its US, and becoming more and more common even in “THE YESHIVA WORLD”
leting every one know the names would be wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is true that what they did is bad, but giving out the names is not going to help in any way! who ever knows them can try to help them out of that bad thing they are in. you have to be careful to peoples feeling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#6 correct — plus it impacts on the rest of the families involved and could destroy shidduchim of their siblings
Pardon me if I am way out of line, but I am troubled. The incident itself is quite disheartening and alarming as it speaks to an ongoing, growing issue within our community, Nebach.
But why is YW covering up the names if they are already publicized in the news stories? I don’t see how that helps the situation at all. Better yet, I truly don’t see how reporting such an incident is productive in any way if we try to be protective of the principles. Either we report it or we don’t, wouldn’t you agree?
#7 – the reason to perhaps make known the names is so that I (and you and everyone else concerned)can make sure that these boys are not names I am aware that my son(s) are with. These could be boys from very good Yeshivos that are now involved in bad things and I need to be a responsible parent and talk to my kids about not associating with these boys. Without names how am I to know if all om my sons friends are still good kids?
A Shayla to an Adom Godol should be asked if the names should be released or not. But to simply say there is no purpose in naming the names is not the case. There may be a VERY GOOD REASON to mention the names.
YW editor – Ask first and follow the direction of our Gedolim.
#3, good idea blame it on Kollel lifestyle.
The three individuals arrested were 18 – 21 years old, not children. No reason not to publish their names.
As for identifying kids involved in a questionable situation, to keep them away from your own family, I’m not in favor of it.
There are many times that a teenager who is marginal, or even a “good” child, can be caught up, one time, in something inappropriate. Cutting them off from the other so-called good kids would be like pushing them off a cliff.
Better to supervise your own children and keep on top of what they and their friends are involved in.
3, 11,
You are both off the wall. Most of the kids at risk come from disfunctional families.
There are other problems in the system where children are not let into Yeshivos or are restricted for petty reasons but to sweepingly blame it on a Kollel life style is motzi shem ra and apikursos of the form “mai ahani lon rabanan”.
#10 if something is going on with your kids and you don’t know then something else is wrong….
you can find out the names a differant way, if importent, if not it is totaly forbbiden for YW to write the names (i asked Gedolim)!!
good luck and may your kids grow up to be big tzadikim.
you should know your childrens friend anyways and what type they are.
‘Kids are a failure at worst, or a mediocrity at best, and a Nebach unless they’re “TOP” and desirous of the Kollel lifestyle.’
This is definitely an issue, but how in the world do you know these kids’ backgrounds that you’re assuming that this is the reason? Maybe they come from, for example, a modern orthodox community, where this has happened before. But that doesn’t fit your template, so you won’t assume that.
#6 I totally agree. To be surprised is naive. This is unfortunately common among teenagers (yeshiva bochurim)and becoming more and more of a problem among married frum men in their 20’s and 30’s as well. Gambling as well is a huge growing concern. We are a generation filled with many voids. WE need to figure out how to fill them.
I happen to know 2 of the kids involved and I can tell you that they come from very choshuva non-yeshivish families from Flatbush. They picked up this behavior in Flatbush, because this is what is going on daily over here. One of the boys discussed with his Rosh yeshiva his summer plans and was told that it was ok to “let off steam bain hazmanim” by chilling, smoking and drinking because this is accepted today in our Flatbush yeshiva society. Many believe that the Police over-reacted and maybe were out of line here. They would be better off getting the white trash off the streets in South Fallsburg, but they won’t because those are thier friends.
I don’t believe they didn’t know. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were the drug pushers themselves. And if that is what happened, Chas V’shalom, they should go to prison. What a Chilul Hashem!
13, I think it is cruel to say that most kids at risk come from dysfunctional families. It is in fact proven otherwise time and time again when children from good wholesome families go off. I think it would be very hurtful for a parent with a child at risk to see what people write here.
MichaelR wrote: “One of the boys discussed with his Rosh yeshiva his summer plans and was told that it was ok to “let off steam bain hazmanim” by chilling, smoking and drinking because this is accepted today in our Flatbush yeshiva society.”
Maybe something has to be done with the high pressured atmosphere of “hazmanim” if kids need to “let off steam” this way. This is just not normal. Kids of that age should be enjoying their time in Yeshiva – not waiting to get out from a pressure cooker. Will someone(s) in authority and with power – and with knowledge – step up to the plate and try to institute some changes in our yeshivos today?
#17: I highly doubt that a Rosh Yeshiva would say that it is fine to smoke and drin.
These boys took “letting off steam” the wrong way, and lit up a blunt.
’13, I think it is cruel to say that most kids at risk come from dysfunctional families. It is in fact proven otherwise time and time again when children from good wholesome families go off. I think it would be very hurtful for a parent with a child at risk to see what people write here. ‘
To ‘correction’
How did you disprove that most of these kids come from dysfuncional families? He didn’t say ‘all’, he said ‘most’, which I have heard from some people who have experience, that this is mostly true. This doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen to wholesome families also. Heck, it happened to Avrohom and Yitzchok Avinu also!
#19 your right.
a lot of kids that go off come from beautiful families.5 10 12 would you want to be the parent of one of these boys and see the names here? it is bsd enough thet they have such a child lets not hurt them more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you yw editor for not publishing the names.
I dont get any newspaper ( ex for Hamodia weekend) so I would never find out the names and there is no toeles for me to know.
I too am surprised that anyone is surprised.
This goes on everyday. The only difference is that they got caught.
Prison? Nothing could be more counter productive.
People do stupid things all the time.
Despite millions of dollars( literally) being pumped into “at risk” programs little has changed since it was brought to light over 10 years ago. Alot of its failures lie in OVERreactions .
Good intentions are nice
overreactions are hurtful
lets not get into machloces.
lets just daven for the geula!!!
23 it is still not right to say even ‘most’.
#17 is out of his mind and cannot possibly be telling the truth – this comment should NEVER have been published. There is NO Rosh Hayeshiva or Rebbi in the world telling boys to drink and smoke. Also, I do not know where you live but I live in Flatbush and host at risk kids for Shabbosos and this is NOT a Flatbush problem nor is it all over the streets of Flatbush.
It sounds to me like you are a frustrated person who has been burnt by the system so you are taking it out on a community by writing what you did. My heart hurts for you but you should not write things that clearly cannot be the truth.
to # 14 – I do know my kids well B”H, I have 8 and try to spend 1 on 1 time with each as often as possible. Yet, one never knows everything. I may know my child but I don’t know yours or others and if I hear a name surface when communicating with my children that is a name to be concerned about I can gently and lovingly make sure he or she stays away from potential danger.
I would love to know which Gadol you asked? Please submit that name to the YW editor in private and he will forward it to me so as not to cause a blog or any Loshon Hora about our Choshuva Gedolim.
# 25 – so much HAS been done over the years to help so many of these children. This at risk issue is an awful Nesayon that Klal Yisorel is facing. We must keep on doing and doing. We are making a dent.
Project Chazon led by Rabbis Mechanic and Milstein speak each year to over 10,000 Bnei Yesiva and Bnos Yaakov and this has prevented thousands of our children from becoming at risk kids. Avi Fishoff and his place Home Sweeet Home have changed the lives of so many boys……the list goes on and on of the many who have been helped and are helping. We have made a huge dent in this problem but the RBS”O seems to still want to hear more of our Teffilos on this crisis.
30 couples in the mountains were out all nighty Motzai Shabbos nachamu, working with-warning-scaring frum kids at pool halls, party houses and bars. All at the direction of one the biggest Poskim. What they saw would turn your stomach. Not just “at-risk” looking kids but kids with black velvet yamulkas, tzitzis out, dancing with girls, and doing all sorts of terrible things. Hundreds (maybe thousands?) of them. parents, wake up and smell the coffee. You can all shoot the blame around as your kids go up in smoke. Sure lots are from dysfuntional, but many arent. And the dysfunctionals are shleeping in others. If you dont watch your kids like hawks you are out of your minds. You think they go to be counselors in bungalow colnies cuz they want to do chinuch???
Whats the big deal?!?! its just a little pot and booze, i mean whats wrong we offer our kids in shul lchaims all the time, and when they do it on theyr own everyone makes a fuss! i say everyone chill ou!
#10 I disagree with your statement. They are legal adults and the papers published the names. so what shailos are there to ask? please explain as there is no shailah to ask.
OUR kids? all Jewish kids are ours.Remember?כל ישראל
ערבים זה לזה
*shrug* maybe it’s not such a bad thing that the civil authorities caught these kids, rather than others who might be inclined (however good their intentions) to brush the matter under the rug after a slap on the wrist – maybe the memory of police breaking up the party will have a greater impact than of, say, kid sister, mommy, or rebbe – nothing quite causes one’s heart to lump in his throat than the realization that the flashing blue lights in the rearview mirror are coming for you
the sort of problems that infiltrated general society a decade or two ago are emerging in our own – I know of a yeshiva (and no, I will not name it here) that administers random drug tests on the bochurim – and if a bochur declines, he has a choice – get out, or get supervised “get clean” counseling – and the most incredible thing is, if you walked into the beis medresh, you’d never guess – the picture of this beis medresh could be swapped with any other – but in this instance, the rebbeim have seen what is happening elsewhere, and they are determined to ensure that it does not happen within their daled amos –
there is no simple universal cause of drug use – home life, peer pressure, internal demons – and sometimes just a stupid sense of “oh, this might be fun” without the knowledge or belief that you’ll either get hooked or worse – maybe kids oughta be encouraged to keep a picture of Len Bias on their desk – you might remember him from 20 years – star college basketball player, drafted by the Boston Celtics, celebrating by trying cocaine, overdosed and died.
a lot of work to be done, my friends –
To destro613 who asked michaelR: what is that Rosh yeshiva’s name? and what yeshiva?
It’s Yeshiva Simchas Hachaim V’hblunts, located on Do you think I’m an idiot street???
If I would reveal the name of the RY to you I would probably not make it home from Mincha/Maariv tonight in one piece. Let’s just leave it that it is a VERY prominent RY who is very involved with Hatzalah and Hashgacha. If you are who I think you are then you know him well.
I am not blaming it on the Kollel lifestyle. Kollel Lifestyle is the best for those that are really cut out for it. I am blaming it on Yeshiva personnel that preach to boys and girls that any lifestyle other Kollel is inferior and that those that can’t and don’t Shteig in learning are Shvach and not great boys. What about ‘Yissachar – Zevulun’ partnerships?
I see this recurring theme that if the newspaper publishes names than it is okay to list them. This is absolutely against Halacha. Just because something is meforsim (publicized) by another source does not give us a heter to talk loshon hora (or possibly motzei shaim ra). I challenge anyone to find a source for this absurd notion.
#31: “just a little pot and booze” –
(1) marijuana is acknowledged to be a “starter drug” – yeah, at the worst you’ll destroy the synapses in your spinal column, and who cares if you ultimately screw up your central nervous system and become a blithering idiot, heck, it’s your body, isn’t it? Have a shortened attention span and problems focusing at work? Get fired? Can’t hold a steady job b/c of the drug problems? No biggie – get welfare and schnor from the local gemach? Wife and kids? Oh, they’ll be alright – the rest of the community will pick up your broken pieces.
Problem is, for various reasons, most folks who start with pot just don’t stick to the marijuana – they branch out to the harder and more dangerous stuff [hence, “starter drug”] – which then leads to (a) getting addicted which has its own dangers – since we’re on-line, try googling “ecstasy” and “crystal meth” – ; (b) placing yourself in danger during a “buy” – (c) getting “bad stuff” and really messing yourself up. Think heroin is bad? Check out what happens when you dose bad heroin.
(2) booze – yeah, we’re seeing folks toss back a few in shul – when was the last time you saw a bochur who’s dumb enough to smoke weed and drink but who is smart enough to know that he is impaired before he gets behind the wheel of a car?
Drugs and alcohol are not victimless crimes – no personal offense intended toward 31, I am just trying to discount the notion that folks can light up and booze up and not need to worry about short-term or long-term repurcussions.
Im reading these comments and i find them to be very disturbing in more then one way! First of all arent we taught since were one yrs old that loshon hora should not be spoken! well in this circumstance where the names are not permitted to be said especially when theres no reason for it! your all writing for the safety of your children well u all sound so lame because this is something you should always be on top of! you should always keep tack on who your kids freinds are! And if u would be on top of it you would know if your child was hanging out with the wrong crowd!by actions they take or language they start using those all happen when ur child is hanging in the wrong group of friends! this is in most cases! so telling the world that you dont know who your child is hanging around with is only making you sound like disfunctional parents! so writing that u need to know the names are for ur own interest and not for the safety of your children! Another thing each child that is at risk has their own story to tell wether they went off from lack of friends or mistreated by thier rabbeim etc.. some may come from very yeshivish,chassidish,litvish homes,wether thier from boro park flatbush or even williamsburg for that matter! so sit and make comments as if you know everybodys story and as if u were in everybodys shoes maybe look beyond and realize that theres a story behind every teenager at risk! And instead of sitting and cursing out the parents do something about it!!! maybe if they see that there are understanding people in the world and not people who JUDGE you in two seconds the world will be a better and happier place!!
MichaelR – you are a wimp and a chicken who hides behind a blog name. No Rosh Yeshiva told kids to drink and smoke. IT NEVER HAPPENED!
If there is a Meshugana out there acting as a Rosh Yeshiva actually telling kids to drink and smoke we should all be told who he is and let whatever happens happen – don’t protect such a person or you are an accomplice to the criminal. Such a person is not worthy of being called a Rosh Yeshiva it takes away from the Choshuva title it is for those who truly deserve it.
Be a man – if there is someone telling kids to drink and smoke tell us all who it is!
Bottom line is you are a liar and a provoker. You have no right to make people think for even a second that Choshuva Rabbonim would ever say such stupidity.
Editors Note: FYI, the same blogger just submitted comments which are blatant LIES. His comments will not be approved from now on.
Rest assured, NO Rosh Yeshiva EVER said such stupidity. I suggest that this individual seek mental help immediately.
ALTHOUGH I AM AGAINST BLOGGING… today I was moved almost to the point of nausea. for what I see written in the previous comments and on another topic. Why can’t people get along? You are each entitled to your own opinion. Perhaps some are swayed by lack of knowledge and perhaps you may not like my opinion.
Unfortunately it doesn’t matter what community it comes from but drinking and drugs have infiltrated our community many years ago. I still remember a story which recieved negative frum press about my Rosh Yeshiva (more than 20 years ago)who used to walk Ocean Parkway in Brooklyn starting conversations with misdirected youth from frum families.
Another story comes to mind – a group of chasidic children from a very Chasiddishe community in Brooklyn who were in Manhattan on Shabbos and their picture ended up in the daily news standing at a fire outside a club on Shabbos without Bigdei Shabbos.
When I was a talmid in Yeshiva South Fallsberg, one Friday night I went for a walk after Seudas Shabbos and saw a young fellow going to the night club located at the Pines Hotel.
THE POINT IS… yes it is important to SHOW TRUE AFFECTION to your children and show them how you can lern hard and also play hard but there is a time for everything. Many children are too stressed out by learning too many Meforshim or Rishonim and Achronim … There needs to be a program for Every child CHANOCH L’NAAR AL PI DARKO.
Instead of arguing about someone elses opinion try to lend a shoulder to the teenagers or lend an ear to the parents. See what you could do to help. Boost someones confidence. Support the yeshivos or orginizations that are helping. Most of all DAVEN that your children NEVER NEVER fall into this CHEREV HAMISHAPECHES.
I think letting kids go up to the country is like letting them have a free for all. When kids go to be counslors in camps and bungalow colonies, there is no supervision for these older kids. They could do as they please after hours and weekends. I think parents should think twice before letting their kids go up to the country, as it may be a recipe for disaster. Personally, I think the whole bungalow colony phenomenon should be outlawed as it seems to cause many more problems than this one.
How can anyone blame this incident on yeshivos promoting kollel lifestyle or any such absurd accusations?! There are some kids who fall through the cracks for many reasons… self- esteem, p pressure, and plain flat out tayvos. Sometimes it’s the parents to blame, sometimes nobody took proper interest or care in school, and some kids have VERY difficult issues which the school or parents can not take care of with all their efforts. In today’s society that one can access whatever he may want— things that were not availible ah muhl, kids are prone to falling deep. Ah muhl ppl were embarrassed or did not have access, they still had the same issues. It’s the fact that we’re so integrated with goyish society, that their aveiros are now our chato-im. Which frum person would’ve become a hippie back in the day? It was a boosha. But pot? whats the big deal? Our sin is that we’ve become as close to goyim and comfortable with them as possible. Yes, most of us can still keep enough distance. But many can not. we see more and more chassidim, who’s yesoid is not to change- that are still bleacher creatures!! Yes, even at the friday nite Yankee game! R”L!
#39 – Unless you yourself have teenage children then you cannot understand what parents today go through – even those who do have great relationships with their own children still cannot know everything and need all the information they can possibly get to be one step ahead of their kids and help protect them
If you do have teenage children and still can say what you say then I suggest you start lecturing publicly your methods of success that you seem so sure about in raising children that you can make the comments you did. You must be one amazing parent.
I go back to my original statement – this is not for you or me to decide. An Adom Gadol who has the Siyata Dshmaya to say the right things should be asked if the names should be publicized. If he says keep the names out then I will of course follow and not ask for names.
In my involvement (daily) with these children I can tell you that R’ Shmuel Kaminetzky Shlita said to me once that children who succumb to Taivos are normal and nebech have fallen in. We need to do whatever we can to protect them and help them. However, those who provide the “stuff” for these kids should be locked up and throw the key away. THAT WAS SAID A FEW YEARS AGO TO ME SO DON”T GO AROUND BASHING THE ROSH YESHIVA…….all I am saying is that we need guidance from Daas Torah as to how to handle these types of stories. Nobody blogging here is Daas Torah. We are all entitled to our opinion(s) but once Daas Torah speaks we are no longer entitled to our opinion. We follow them!
#36: That’s what everyone who is not in Kollel says. Maybe you are just feeling inferior. Obviously Kollel is not for everyone and it is for each individual to decide what is best for himself. In my limited knowledge, there is NO girls school or Yeshiva that says any other lifestyle is inferior!
If you think about it if a boy is in learning before he gets married (unless he goes to some harry yeshiva) there is some form of Kollel, so of-course the over-all atitude is that you are going to stay and continue on to Kollel, noone is saying what anyone should do, it’s just the atmosphere.
Girls schools don’t push it either, I went to a high-school were I’d say 85% of the girls end up living the Kollel lifestyle, you may say that it’s brainwashing, but it’s not! It’s you being shown the beauty of the Kollel Lifestyle, it’s pashtus, and it’s endless rewards.
gosh get a life i cant even read all this but looks like every comment has some lashon hora, rechilus, letzanus, or the like – grow up!
It could be worse. They could have been caught working or going to college.