First the reply to the accusations:
I’m tired of hearing you ask me the same questions repeatedly with slightly changed wording and then when I respond to your repeated question to help you understand, you only shoot out that I changed what I am advising you. (I am not.)
Judge for yourselves if this is a change in what’s being claimed:
On to the next statement:
The point is dina dmalchusa is inapplicable regarding monetary issues between two non-governmental parties, per most poskim including Rav Eliashev.
Next accusation…
And you’ve not only mischaracterized what I am relating, but you’ve done so as well regarding what Rav Moshe and what Rav Shapiro said.
There is enough information for anyone to look up Rav Moshe’s opinion and (lbclc) Rav Schapiro’s.
I absolutely deny misrepresenting anything; please check for yourselves.
Onward…
Rav Belsky shlita takes a more chumradik position on this than most poskim, but he is not the posek hador like Rav Moshe was.
Next accusation, this one implicit…
(And do you use a Shabbos-clock on an AC, against Rav Moshe’s ruling? Do you drink unfiltered NYC tap water, per Rav Belsky’s ruling, which is permissive despite most poskim being non-permissive?)
Yes, I use Shabbos clocks on Shabbos and Yom Tov. This is a famous issue in which the oilam doesn’t follow Rav Moshe’s psak. I don’t know why not, nor do I know if his talmidim follow this psak.
If Rav Belsky is my posek, then yes, I’d follow his kulos and his chumros. If Rav Heinemann is my posek, I’d do likewise and use the Shabbos oven on Yom Tov. If I use unfiltered water (per Rav Belsky), use Shabbos ovens on Yom Tov (per Rav Heinemann), and wear a hat-cover on Shabbos (per the Klausenberger), I’m cherry-picking.
Onward…
And Rav Eliashev did NOT give a “haskama” that printing such a tnai makes it prohibited to copy.
A half truth. Rav Schapiro’s interprets the haskoma that Rav Elyashiv gives on the tnai as not actually prohibiting copying in narrow circumstances.
The bottom line is that most poskim allow copying in a case where the producer takes no loss. None of the poskim mentioned so far, with the notable exception of Rav Belsky, bring a teshuva being non-permissive in a case where no loss is sustained.
Next…
Yes, I agree with all Rav Shapiro’s chumras, but they are not all what you presented them to be. The only essential difference, which you characterize as a “chumra”, is determining whether the person really wouldn’t have purchased the product if he couldn’t copy it.
Once again, what’s misrepresented?
Please read what he wrote, what I quoted, and try to find where there is a misrepresentation or mischaracterization.
I absolutely stand by my understanding of Rav Schapiro’s psak, which is makil where someone wouldn’t buy an intial copy, and machmir where he would buy a second copy.
He certainly sounds like someone worthy of respect. (Just in case anyone thinks I’m being sarcastic, I assure you, I’m not.)
All things considered, we are going in circles. So I will now honor your request to no longer currently discuss this in public here If you wish to have the last word (or two – or even three postings), the floor is all yours. I rest my case.
A cowardly way out.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = =
And now, the promised Igros Moshe (cut and pasted, I didn’t type it myself):
??”? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ? ???? ?
:?”? ?? ????? ???? ??”? ????? ???????
???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ?? ??”? ???? ???? ??? ????, ?????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ?????, ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??????, ?????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ?????, ?? ?? ????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ??? ???????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?? ?? ???? ??”? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ???????? ??????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??”? ????? ????? ???? ???????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????
.???? ??? ????
??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???”? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???????? ???’ ????, ??????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ?? ?????, ??? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ??”? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ???????, ?? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?? ???????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ?”? ?????? ????? ???????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ?????, ??? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?? ????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???, ??? ??”? ??? ???? ????? ??? ??? ????? ????, ??? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ??? ????? ??? ????? ???
fini