Home › Forums › Decaffeinated Coffee › What's the argument against having a Madina? › Reply To: What's the argument against having a Madina?
Avi K. — I am not at all disagreeing that we must give tremendous thanks to Hashem for Nissim that saved Jewish lives and enabled us access to Mekomos Kedoshim. Throughout history individual communities have commemorated yeshuos that came when various dangers have faced them. I am just questioning if a yeshua (or any miraculous success) indicated someone is doing the right thing. Do you have a source for your statement that a Chazaka of yeshuos indicates that ones behavior is correct? I know for certain that in individual life this is definitely NOT the case!!! (I once heard from a Rosh Yeshiva with regard to a completely different topic that if things are going remarkably smoothly on a project that is usually a reason to take a closer look that everything is Yosher, as when real Avodas Hashem is occurring the Satan tries very hard to make it difficult!)
Mod 72 — Although I agree with the bulk of what you are saying, I don’t believe that “aisav sonai as Yaakov” means we don’t need to look at our own behaviors. Chazal have very clear instructions as to how we should behave in galus. They don’t say “well, they hate us anyway, so just do what you want.” We are specifically told to take a low profile in galus, not to antogonize the goyim, etc. Again, I am not addressing whether or not the creation of the medina falls into this — I am not an expert on the topic.
Additionally, it is interesting to note that historically Jews have gotten along much better with the Arabs (who technically are not benei aisav) than the Christians. Obviously there were plenty of rough times, but many of the communities in the Middle East (such as those in Iran and Iraq) were actually there in relative stability since Churban Bayis Rishon! This is in stark contrast to the constant expulsions and worse the Jews throughout most of Europe faced. It was only really post WWII that things became so bad in these countries and the communities began to leave.
This happens to be one of the strong arguments against the whole concept of the “Palestinian refugee” issue — since the creation of Medinat Yisroel, as many Jewish “refugees” were forced out of their homes in Arab countries as the number of Arabs who left their homes in Israel. The difference is that Israel absorbed these Jews into their country, while the Arab countries made sure to keep these “Palestinians” separate to perpetuate the complaint.
Finally, my personal feeling is (no source for this, just my thoughts) that whatever the proper Hashkafa is with regard to the Zionists and the state of Israel, I have tremendous Hakaras Hatov to the rank and file soldiers who are putting their lives on the line to protect other Jewish lives — including my family. When we lived in Chutz L’Aretz I had appreciation for the U.S. military, how much more so I daven that Hashem should protect the young Jewish soldiers who are doing their hishtadlus for our security.