Reply To: What's the argument against having a Madina?

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#852414
HaKatan
Participant

Whoa, what’s with all this ganging up against (the bearer of) an inconvenient truth (or truths)?

First, it is important to distinguish between what, on the one hand, is/was halachicly correct and, on the other, what can be done given the present reality.

Regarding the latter, there is no question that the State of Israel exists and that since they have (foolishly) assumed responsibility (sad as that has been) for so many of our brethren, they cannot simply pack their bags. As well, the State of Israel is the only country who cannot (and does not) claim “to the victor go the spoils”, and this is a black mark on the nations of the world. This is clear.

However, it is just as, if not even more, important to know the truth and what is right and what is wrong, EVEN IF PRESENT REALITY DICTATES A DIFFERENT APPROACH. Zionism was, is, and likely always will be, a major disaster for OUR people. This is indisputable, regardless of the ability to visit the kosel and whatever other chasdei Hashem we are blessed with that are “benefits” of having a State of Israel. The war miracles and other tired arguments are all irrelevant in asserting Zionism was a priori correct. It was not and only proves that more and more as time goes on.

The Zionists have inflamed the Arabs (and others in the world, EXACERBATING Esav Sonei LiYaakov) to hate us FAR, far more than they ever did. They were always Pereh Adam, and never loved us (though they did revere the Baba Sali and stood reverently for him when he passed in the streets). This doesn’t excuse their behavior at all, and the Arabs are still 100% at fault for every drop of blood they savagely spilled. But the Zionists are still far from blameless.

Trying to justify Zionism with “Esav Sonei LiYaakov” is absurd as breaking down a fence to fight a pit bull based on a rationale that the pit bull is violent anyways…so might as well seek to fight it?

Which is precisely why the smart thing to do was to do what we’ve always done in galus, and which has B”H, sustained us through today and will continue to do so, BE”H, until Beas Goel Tzedek BB”A, which is to lay low and NOT fight neither Eisav nor Yishmael, unless CH”V compelled to do so. The Zionists did not and do not care what the cost was as long as it furthered their agenda of gaining a State and keeping that State, and post-Jewish, CH”V, as well.

Most gedolim, including the Chofetz Chaim who died well before the State of Israel was established, knew and publicly made known that Zionism was and is a disaster.

Next, this is not a “Satmar shita”. It is reality, and it is also what most every gadol held prior to the State’s founding. Once the State was founded, some gedolim said to deal with the egel hazahav that has been hatched. But the position did not change, just the method of dealing with the reality at hand. Zionism was and is just as anti-halacha now as it was before the State’s founding.

It is painfully obvious that Jews would have been far better off without Zionism. That is, it is obvious if you are objective and read up on the history of the matter and open your eyes to the events of recent history.

I hope that clarifies matters, though it seems some have the wool of Zionist fallacy and fantasy pulled way too tightly over them.