Hi gavra-at-work.
Hi BtGuy!
Again…(for the last time) what do you mean by “Exactly” lol
You are being anything BUT exact by saying, “follow the SA”. I think that is officially called an over generalization and is in no way a proof or defense.
Defense of what?
Since you failed to get anywhere near as detailed as the quotes and statements provided to you, I take it you are stuck and just holding to your opinion.
I don’t have an opinion that I am aware of stating. Please tell me what my opinion is so I can stick to it 🙂 My opinion is that of the Shulchan Aruch. YD Simin 249.16. Take a look there.
By the way, you do get Schar by giving to someone who ends up being a fraud. I know from whom I learned that from, and you probably heard of his name too.
Source? Not a quote, an inside source.
I appreciate your tenacity, but it does not contain any proof or quote from where get the idea that one does not get schar by giving without investigating, should the collector be a fraud.
Offen the Gemorah I quoted earlier in the thread. Read it.
You also failed to say where YOU “draw the line” when you “sense” someone may be a fraud. I am interested in how you can tell from ten collectors at your door, who may be a fraud, and then hold back from giving them a few bucks.
There is no reason why you can not give a quarter to someone who asks for it, Tzedaka or not.
My Rov specificly says there is no Chiyuv to give to anyone who comes to my door without a letter from the local Va’ad. In fact, he reccomends that I tell them as such, so that they can be investigated by those who know what they are doing. That for me is the line. Once again, there is no reason why a quarter can not be given in any case.
Again, throwing us to the “SA” is not a response.
I do agree with one thing, to ask our LOR.
Boruch Hashem 🙂 See the SA that I brought earlier (249.16), that is a response. Ask your LOR for practical application.
So please dont poskin, in the meantime, for anyone to hold back tzedaka from anyone asking unless they KNOW the person is a fraud, a per the SA. What you are telling us to consider and act upon, again, is not Jewish.
Chas V’shalom! Where do you think I said that someone should act not Jewish? 🙂 And where did I say “Don’t give”? See SA YD 251.1&2 for parameters, but that’s not my statement. I’m just the mailman.
In fact, the SA says not to give ONLY if you are CERTAIN someone is a fraud, and it even says do NOT investigate when someone is asking because they or someone they know is hungry.
The words “someone they know” is not in my version of SA. If you look at the Gemorah that the halacha is based on, the reason only applies if the asker is in front of you, due to Pikuach Nefesh. Ask your LOR for actual Halacha.
The tone of your posts implies to not give even outside those parameters, yet you have failed to give a basis for your view.
I hope you stand corrected.
Once again, I have said nothing (in earlier posts) about giving or not, except to say that some causes should not get (I believe you would agree regarding Jews for J?).
I await your sources (of which B’mechilas Kavodcha you have not brought a single one). I have no problem retracting if I turn out to be incorrect.