The heter mentioned was for a derabanan where it benefits the child, in cases of great necessity, eg telling a child to shut off a light.
I am at work now so I will need to get back to you on the halacha of a kid in the same room as the parents. Iy”h tonight I will check it up. I didn’t make this up though.
Fluorescent light bulbs- my rav paskens they are different than incandescent bulbs, and you can tell a goy to turn them on or off on shabbos, as opposed to a fluorescent bulb. He did his research, and he concludes differently. He’s not am “am ha’aretz” rav. His specialty is halacha and metzius.
Yes, my child of 18 months knows if I’m happy or upset with his actions. I wasn’t talking about encouraging him one way or the other. When he’s on his own, he spills things ,plays with phones, plays with light switches, makes noise, all without trying to please or upset me. It’s part of being a leibidikke child. It is clearly daas atzmo when he is near a switch or toy that makes noise. If your 18-month-old is obedient to you then I truly envy you. So yes, if he was three and my wife turned the light out, and he wanted to please me by turning it on, I would be mechuyav to stop him, even though he is under the age of chinuch. But if I hold him near the light and give no indication either way, then it is daas atzmo. I looked up the piskei teshuvos last night on siman 334, and he brings down a machlokes if you are mechuyav to be mafrish your katan below chinuch even when it is daas atzmo or by tinok she’ein lo daas klal.
He does bring a mishkenos yaakov that holds you are mechuyav to be mafrish a katan she’ein lo daas klal from doing an issur shabbos even tho it’s not a meleches machsheves.
That said, I was calling around last night after I read your post to find out what my own rav holds, and he holds like this, which is even more machmir than you- he holds is can NEVER be your own child, and if it’s someone else’s child it’s until the age of 2, and it can’t be a vadai he will turn it on. This is more machmir than Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen, who allows you to put a child right to the light, so if anyone has his number or can speak to him on this to get clarity, I would appreciate it. So yeah, I can’t rely on his sefer anymore as I must follow my own rov, but my own rav allows me to get the goytah from the building to turn off or on the the fluorescent lights so it’s a wash.
You are absolutely correct about a child of 3-4. At this point, I admit my ignorance. I studied these halachos but forgot them. I’m a balabos at work now and don’t have MB or SA-OC access. As the issur of being mazhir a gadol about a katan, the father did an aveirah beshogeig- he thought it was muttar. It is clearly assur for him to daven in the shul. Would it be muttar for everyone else in the shul as a shaas hadchak, or since the aveirah beshogeig was done for your benefit everyone would be mechuyav to leave the shul?