Reply To: Vegetarianism and morality

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yitayningwut
Participant

Abelleh-

I am quite aware of what the Rambam says, and I have quoted his words often on the site. Here is a passage that ostensibly supports your claim, which I have cited at least once before (Guide 3:31):

???? ??? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ?? ??????, ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??????? ???? ???, ???? ????? ?? ?? ??? ???’ ??? ????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ??????? ??? ??????? ????? ?? ??????? ???, ???? ????? ??? ??????? ???????? ??? ???, ???? ???? ???? ??? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??????, ???? ??? ??? ??? ???. ?? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???, ????? ???’ ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ??????, ?? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ???, ???? ?? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ??????? ????? ???’. ????? ?? ?????, ??? ????? ???? ??, ??????? ???? ????????, ??? ?????? ????? ???’ ??? ?????? ?? ?? ????? ???? ????? ?? ?? ??? ????? ???? ????? ??? , ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ????? ??? ????? ???????, ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?? ????, ??? ???? ?????, ??? ???? ???, ??? ???? ??????? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ??????. ??? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ???, ??? ??? ???? ???? ???”? ????? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ?????, ?? ????? ??? ??, ?? ?????? ??? ???, ?? ????? ???, ?? ?????? ????? ?????, ?? ?????? ????? ????.

Admittedly, the general trend of the Rambam’s words seem to observe a “moral value” in the laws of the Torah. However, if by “moral value” you mean a sentiment or feeling perceived inside a person, you are very wrong. Such might be the so-called opinion of some (psudeo-)philosophers of today, but the Rambam never held that.

In the above passage the Rambam states a list of values, which are:

?????? ??? ????? To give a true opinion

????? ??? ?? To remove a false opinion

?????? ??? ??? To give an order of integrity

????? ??? To remove injustice

?????? ????? ????? To teach good attributes

?????? ????? ???? To warn away from bad attributes

The Torah, according to the Rambam, gives credence to certain ideas, and to certain modes of action. He makes no mention of feelings. What I feel is good another might feel is bad and all of it might just be a product of our respective environments; to bring feelings into an intellectual discussion and brand them as truths is naive and untrue.

And just to bring it a little bit further, there is a passage from a letter from the Rambam to the ???? ????????? (it can be found in the Igros Harambam ed. Shilat Vol. II p. 479) which reads as follows:

Basically there are three things that are worth believing in; logic, the five senses, and something told to you by a person whose perception of reality is greater than yours. But to believe that a moral feeling is an accurate representation of truth? That’s foolishness at best and egocentricity at worst.

Therefore the question of the OP is a non-question, and I stand by my original answer.

twisted-

Derech eretz is not a “moral” directive in the sense the word is being used here. There is a whole masechta (albeit k’tana, found after Talmud AZ and Horayos) called ???? ??? ??? that tells us many interesting rules of derech eretz such as ways of eating etc., things you wouldn’t say have anything to do with “morality.” The most simple translation, though it varies based on context, would be manners.