Police Chief Ilan Franco testified on Tuesday before the High Court of Justice and stated that “allowing the pride parade in Jerusalem to go on as scheduled would put those participating and contesting the parade at serious risk.” Mayor Uri Lupolianski told court that the city council saw the Shame Parade as a “provocation that would upset the delicate fabric of the city.”
Right-wing activist Itamar Ben-Gvir told the court that the parade should be held in an enclosed space like it was last year.
Other petitions were heard from Eli Yishai (Shas), and extreme-right activist Baruch Marzel.
Meanwhile, Arutz 7 reported that Degel Hatorah has a Kol Koreh addressed to all Yeshiva students instructing them not to take part in protests The Kol Koreh stated that the violent Hafganos were not appropriate for Yeshiva Bochrim; instead Tefillah and Limud Hatorah is the way to go.
The Knesset is scheduled to discuss the Shame Parade & anti-parade protests set for Thursday.
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20 Responses
i guess illan franko got the hint becuase his car was hit by a burning garbage container on motzei shabbos so i guess he realizes that the oilam means business
Degel Hatorah is a political party, not da’as Torah in and of itself. Is that Kol Koreh signed by individual Gedolim/Roshei Yeshiva/Rebbes/Rabbonim?
Feif Un:
I used to agree with you 100%. Every time I saw a hafgonah I asked why ??? Is it really doing anything ? Last year when they had them for the parade they did a lot of damage. They showed that they meant business. The parade was changed to a rally. The police said that they were canceling it do to security concerns but NOT because of the chariedim. There is no doubt that it was canceled because of the chariedim. It wasn’t the best route to take but at the end of the day it brought results. And yes the rabonim tried through legal channels first before everyone went out and wreaked havock.
Feif: I’m aware of all that. My question is if it was released with a chasima on the bottom, does it mean automatically that it comes from Rav Elyashiv, Rav Shteinman, etc. or just an unsigned Kol Koreh. As we know here in America, not every proclamation issued by Zweibel or Shafran is run by the Moetzes. General hashkafa and specific issues are run by them, but not necessarily is every statement signed by them. Many of the hotheads will need to see the actual chasimos of people they recognize as gedolim before desisting from their riots.
BuzBuz- but was it with the haskonas haposkin??? Its very nice that you decided what caused the change but we STILL can’t do things on our own esp. something as devastating as these violent hafganos! So- when you have daas torah that says thats the route to be taken kol hakovod! but until then, wreaking havoc is not the way to go (again even if you feel it will bring about results) Daas torah daas torah and daas torah!!!
So now Das Torah has finalized the matter. Too bad they couldn’t have come out with the Kol Koreh a few days ago. It would have prevented alot of unnessary injuries.
WHY IS IT THAT YOUR ALL DEBATING WHETHER DASS TORAH DID IN FACT DECIDE BOCHURIM SHOULDNT PROTEST BUT NO ONE BOTHERED TO CHECK WITH THE GEDOLIM BEFORE THEY WENT OUT AND BURNT GARBAGE CANS/THROWING BOTTLES AT JEWISH POLICEMEN/BLOCKING TRAFFIC ETC ???
ALL OF A SUDDEN PEOPLE ASK IF THE GEDOLIM SAID NOT TO PROTEST THE QUESTION SHOULD BE ASKED IF THE GEDOLIM TOLD THEM TO GO OUT CLOSE THEIR GEMORAS AND PROTEST IN THE FIRST PLACE!! PEOPLE ASK SHAYLOS WHEN IT SUITS THEIR NEEDS AND POINT OF VIEW AND AT OTHER TIMES DECIDE THINGS ON THEIR OWN??IS THAT OIS GEHALTEN??ARE THEY REALLY LESHAYM SHOMAYIM??
By chance (?) I found the following in a 1975 Edition of Tradition magazine; it is from an essay by Rabbi Emanual Feldman of Atlanta, GA:
” . . . the soul of the Land, and it is a sensitive one. Eretz Yisrael is eretz hakedosha, the Holy Land. It is also the Land of Holiness. It cannot be lived upon like any other land. This Land has its own special soul, its own life, and is so constituted that, like a delicate organism, it cannot tolerate strange and foreign ways in its borders . . .”
Nothing we do not know, of course, but I thought that Rabbi Feldman expressed it quite eloquently, and his thoughts then, pertaining to different issues, speak well to the current matter, too.
I write to YW from yerushalayim as a person who sees everything every night from his window. The ASAM and Police , as well as the army are getting frustrated as to what goes on every night. The throwing of dumpsters on every street corner to the burning flames in the garbage bins. For the bochurim, its an unhealthy way to vent their energy. And i’m not certain that Daas Torah is behind these sort of protests but it definitly leaves an impression in the governments eyes as to whether or not they should refrain from going on with the shame parade. They have no mercy, the ASAM that is, that when they get hold of a guy – they beat him and they beat him good. Till five or six in the morning, they are seen running the side alleys and main streets hiding and lurking for boys to grab. Last night they pulled a boys PAYIS out and tonight they beat up a poor eight year old boy. Whatever the case is, the parade has taken its affect in areas other than shame. Violence is its game in the week leading up to the expected date. And for those who say – ‘y don’t you protest by learning and DAVening’ i answer that when boys look out their window when they hear noise at 4 in the morning, their reactions, as boys tend to do, is to join in or watch. Its very nice to post what they should be doing (running to learn) but its not something thats too realistic from teenagers in the midst of a view from an upstairs porch. You can argue, but this is whats happening and its CHAVAL that they have to get hurt. Its time to end this silly parade and its violence and return the proper sanctity to Jerusalem.
I shame for you
My city
For a pride that’s been misplaced
I shame for you
My love
For a name that’s been disgraced
I shame for you
My city
For a people so confused
I shame for you
My love
For requests that were refused
I shame for you
My city
For a fight that can not end
I shame for you
My love
For the violence they send
I shame for you
My city
For the fires in the souls
I shame for you
My love
For misdirected goals
I shame for you
My city
For an act that’s been misused
I shame for you
My love
For a love that’s been abused
>Good for Degel HaTorah! Making a chillul Hashem by using violence and lighting things on fore is definitely not appropriate, especially since it will not stop the parade from happening.
Shtussim. The only thing that will stop it is the threat of violence, just like it did last year.
>Let the politicians do their part, and let the Yeshiva bochurim daven that the politicians should succeed.
Knock Knock, waaaaake up!!! Politicians?! They aren’t stopping it despite the countless threats of violence, ya think they gonna stop it because a politician is asking themn too?
>So- when you have daas torah that says thats the route to be taken kol hakovod! but until then, wreaking havoc is not the way to go (again even if you feel it will bring about results) Daas torah daas torah and daas torah!!!
>So now Das Torah has finalized the matter…
You boys don’t get it. Had Pinchas asked Daas Torah, there wouldn’t have been a “Pinchos”. The matzav here is not about following a Halacha, but about being “Mekana” (Kannous) L’shem Shamayim! When a fire is burning, you don’t knock on your neighbors door. You smash it down and save Nefoshos. When the fiery Tumah of these evil defilers is threatening to destroy our Kedusha, theres no asking. We run and are Mekana Lshem Shamayim.
>THE QUESTION SHOULD BE ASKED IF THE GEDOLIM TOLD THEM TO GO OUT CLOSE THEIR GEMORAS AND PROTEST IN THE FIRST PLACE!!
Ven ah fai’er brent, men loift! Men Fregt Nisht kein kashyas!
After Pinchos did what he did, he also received a bracha from the Ribono Shel Olam; a Birkas Shalom. Why? Because when someone commits a deed, no matter for what purpose, it becomes a part of him. Pinchos had commited murder. Yes, it was for a good cause, a noble cause. But it was still a deed that he had done. Therefore, he needed Hashem’s blessing to make sure it WOULDN’T become a part of him.
The question still remains to be answered:
Is G-d’s blessing with us? Is this what He wants us to be doing? Do we want to become violent people?
I don’t claim to have any answers. I’m just asking the questions.
And feeling the pain.
Baruch Baruch is extremely right. Right on!
DWKL1- thats exactly what we are talking about…protesting thru the tremendous chilul hashem of burning garbages etc… Im not sure what your question is …daas torah should be asked before protesting thru any of these crazy means…and all this talk about pinchas borders on kefirah….make sure you know the ” sugya ” real well before saying that we need not speak to our gedolim… the bottom line is that for us – right here right now- we must have daas torah .PERIOD!!! theres no room for arguement on this matter. secondly- the inyan of kanois would be if all this was done for the right reason. I repeat most of the protestors are young children who really have no clue… I am in Jerusalem and personally went over to a group of garbage burning grinning kids and they had NO clue as to why they were being given this “heter” to act like meshugoyim but boy were they jumping at the opportunity.
I hear the Eidah wants to sue the police for damages?!?!?!?!
Remember Why we do as we do… Remember Why a jew is a jew… Remember why we say what we say… Remember why we are alive today… (In other words, we should be doing everything that G’D wants us to.. And when we are not sure as to what that is… WE ASK THE RABANIM! They tell us if to protest… They tell us when to protest… They tell us why to protest… And most importantly if we do protest, we should REMEMBER WHY we are protesting.)
dreamer123
fantastic!
yzccjr – thanks.
i was wondering if anyone noticed…
🙂