27 Responses

1. In my own very humble opinion, it is better that the prade take place, than we behave violently. At the end of the day, our goal is Kiddush HaShem, isn’t it?

2. Go, Badatz! You have taken a leadership role and, even more significantly, a fatherly position with respect to these desperately lost Yidden in the current administration. May it be the will of the R”shel olam that you be matzliach once and for all.

3. i see offer the carrot befor the stick . SORRY but Ilan Franko only undrstands the stick

4. Perhaps in America it would be better not to protest, but in Eretz Yisroel things work differently. This is evident from Rav Shach’s famous speech against selling pig in Yerushalayim and from the wide range of Roshei Yeshiva who endorse various hafganos.

   Does Ilan Franko only understand the stick? As chief of police he can only stop things if they are security related (like if there will be a demonstration). I would be surprised if he is in a position to unilaterally cancel the parade.
   On the other hand, IF he is the one hitting kids at Hafganos – I have no mercy on him.

5. esrog:

   I can’t begin to even think that you honestly wrote your post…This is one of the 3 worst Aveiros that tens of thousnads of people will be commiting in mass procession…Of course we should work as hard as possible to prevent it…

6. The police cannot unilaterally stop the parade…but is a violent hafganah the answer? there will be children that will be hurt r”l and many others!! Lo bechayil velo bekoach omar hashem…let the badatz protest in a civil and peaceful manner…there is no need for violence!

7. Thank G-d that there are still Yidden who willing to actually fight for a moral, just cause. To keep silent in the face of the desecration of the holiest place on earth would be a moral outrage in and of itself. And to all of you who are screaming that such a protest would create a Chilul Hashem, ask yourselves, the following: Would a “shameful” protest ever even be SUGGESTED in a cities such as Mecca or the Vatican? Never. Remember: one of the main goals of the Zionist government is to pervert Eretz HaKodesh into a country just like any other.

8. The participants of the shame parade have only one agenda in mind which they always carry with them on a gigantic banner; RECRUIT, RECRUIT, RECRUIT! Violence is the only answer. How do you respond to people who are trying to take a toeva and shove down our throats and force us to become like them?

9. The question is what hurts more: Children and adults getting hurt PHYSICALLY from the stick of Franko and his gang or SPIRITUALLY, from the filth these people want to force upon the holy Jewish children and Jewish people in general, causing, chas veshalom, an everlasting damage.

   Most Rabbanim fear the latter and that’s the reason for the major protest, even with violence. It’s a bigger chillul Hashem to allow such abomination to pass our midst – in the heart of Yerushalayim Ir Hakodesh – than the violent protest.

10. FLATBUSHBUBBY: you write “violence is the only answer”…easy for you to say from your comfortable armchair somewhere in the safety of your home…would you like to see your sons and grandchildren involved in the violence you so proudly proclaim? THINK before you spew your inane comments bubby…

11. Gezint,
    well said!
    Flatbushbubby:

    I deplore this march but I dont think the point is that they want us to become like them.

    ‘Violence is the only answer’
    Violence is something that we, FRUM yidden shouldn never ever resort to unless forced. It totally goes against the values we stand for.It certainly will not make a kIDDUSH HASHEM either!

12. With the exception of giyus banos, there has NEVER been a gadol (and I mean the likes of R’ Isser Zalman, the Chazon Ish, R’ Yechzekel Abramsky, The Steipler, Rav Shach, Rav Elyashiv) that endorsed or encouraged any sort of violent protests.

    Rav Shach was against violent protests for three reasons. 1 – Usually, more can be achieved when negotiations are held quietly, behind close doors. 2 – There is a real question of pikuah nefashos. It takes one hot headed teenager to throw an egg at the police, and they will respond with their brutal force, and they can and have killed people. 3 – If you protest about everything, protests become nothing more than a nuisance that the secular government must deal with. Protests should only be used in emergency situations, e.g. giyus banos, and then the government will understand that they went to far.

    I don’t consider to be gedolim those that are hired by an organization, and would otherwise be less famous, if famous at all.

13. b”h we have people like nameless and gezint that understand that violence and daas torah do not go hand in hand
    to flatbushbubby: stick to making kneidlach and cholent

14. A few years ago, during a shame parade (when charedi Jewry ignored them), a charedi man stabbed a participator of the parade. That Shabbos was Parshas Pinchas. During Laining, as we were reading about what Zimry did, and how Hashem approves of his violence, I understood were the stabber was inspired from. Maybe he was right.

    I asked a friend of mine, a talmid chochom, what his opinion was. He reffered to a Tehuva by the Chazon Ish, were he writes that we are no longer permitted to use any sort of violence what so ever to promote Torah interests.

    Authentic Charedism always opposed violence for any reason. Like Rav Shach said that even for the Kosel we are prohibitted to shed even one drop of Jewish blood.

15. I don’t think that you can make a blanket statement about violent hafgonos apply to this one. has a very broad definition, it could mean:

    1. Yelling/Getting in the way
    2. Burning Garbage cans
    3. throwing eggs
    4. Breaking windows
    5. setting (empty) cars on fire
    6. throwing stones at people
    7. using knives
    8. using guns
    9. Using

16. esrog Im afraid you lost your pitum.

17. whyare they surprised. Arent they chashud on sfichas damim?

18. I’m not a Rov so this is not an Halachic comment. As me, I say get out in the streets and stop this ‘parade’ at all costs. Lay down in the street, fight with the Mishtara – just stop it.

19. esrog? I say lemon!
    I think that one way to avoid violent protest would be to universally declare our opposition to this Toi’ayvu!
    When we have apologists for the avaryunim like esrog and illini (haven’t heard from HIM in a while, he must be stomping for Hillary and Barrack Hussein O’Bama), the natural response to those true keepers of the faith is to turn to stronger protest and chas v’shulem violence.
    Let the BD”TZ see that the whole frim world including mizrachim, Libavitch, all chasidim and litvaks, men women and children are united in our opposition to that way of life and perhaps hashem will have rachmunis on us and destroy the parade in his way.
    How many of us voted for Spitzer? Any wonder charedim have to take up louder protest?

20. Noitallrr,
    Are you permitted to stop one of the three averous using another Aveira?
    I don’t know.

    cherryhillbilly,
    why??? Please explain yourself.

    velicher choosid,
    velicher choosid? I say Velicher choosid shoteh!

21. I have to repeat – No gedolim are endorsing violence! period! Few if any gedolim endorse wasting the holy city of yerushalayim….and again most of the garbage burners and egg throwers are children that are doing it for the fun…..watch their grinning faces as they roll garbages down malchei yisroel (while putting many pp seriously at risk…)…if there is endorsement by gedolim where are the adults? It is inexcuasable what went on last yr….no! the kids arent “disgusted”! dont give that excuse! I personally went over to MANY of them and asked why they were doinhg what they were doing and they had no answer! it did not seem lika any one actually sat down and explained to the what was going on- granted we dont want to expose them but then realize that they arent doing it for the “right reasons” .
    the point is 1)there is no endorsement by our gedolim,2)most of the wrecking is done on the hands of children (and fine -young adults) who dont really understand whats going on other then its fun time! just ask them about the mounting excitement when they hear about “hafgana time”- what fun!
    we are not on the madrega of zimri so lets not bring that in to the picture here!As said most of us must understand that b/c we arent the “trouble makers” at the hafgana….lets be realistic pp! The march represents a most horrible and disgustic way of life ! NO DOUBT! before any of us act in any questionable manner- GET A PSAK!dont rely on what you “heard” the “gedolim’ said….
    in the meantime – daven! no one will argue against that!

22. Tek,
    You couldn’t have said it better!!!

23. This is the same picture you posted half a year ago by the last parade. “Police Chief Franco’s new look, Thursday, November 9th, 2006 “.
    Just thought I’d let you know that you have some very attentive readers. So you better be on your toes.

24. To Esrog:

    defiantely…

25. All this to me just brings at one point. WE HAVE A VOICE !!! Last year when they wanted to make the parade they ended up just having a rally. They said that it wasn’t because of the hafganot but we know other wise. Ask any one that was in Israel a year ago. He have a say it what happens and we need to let the govt. know that.

    We should all daven to hashem that the parade doesn’t happen and that hashem should help these people control their urges and use them only for good. (We have to be happy that we don’t have the nisyonos that these people do….)

26. we have gedolei Hador all around the world. If they tell us to do something than fine. if not we won’t. It’s just that simple. And everyone please remember the 11th commandment “Don’t be stupid” – Think

27. cherryhillbilly – I think your comments are the pits.