Don’t mind me, as I bang my head against the wall….as everyone tries to touch a different part the elephant.
Could we try this again? Does anyone mind- as an experiment – if I try to work us through this in an organized fashion – and we’ll maybe see that both opinions are valid interpetation based on differing worldviews (aka, the machlokes is not here, and not Halachic) – or should we just keep throwing sources & hearsay at each other, and then get frustrated and call each other names?
I think it’s such a shame to see intelligent people have to resort to name calling. And I think that working through things a little slower would let us get a little clarity.