Rabbis are set to ban the burka for a small group of radical Jewish women who have taken to wearing it.
Two years ago, it emerged that around 100 women in the city of Beit Shemesh had begun to cover their faces with a veil and wear numerous layers of clothing to obscure their body shape. When many rabbis criticised the trend, the women took no notice because they considered the rabbis too moderate.
But now, the religious body admired by the most religiously hard-line elements in Israel – even the Neturei Karta anti-Zionist sect – is about to apply its clout and try to quash the trend.
The Eida Charedis rabbinic organisation will soon release a statement condemning the practice of the Beit Shemesh women, Shlomo Pappenheim, a senior member of the management committees, said.
The move was prompted by the husbands of some of the burka-wearing women, who last week urged the Eida to take a stand against their wives.
Pappenheim described the Jewish adoption of the burka as part of an “obsession” with extreme modesty that is also manifest in the wearing of many layers of clothing.
“We have got a Torah and we have got a tradition and these things were never allowed or demanded,” he said. “Cover the body, fine, but you would think them a sack of potatoes.”
“The Eda Charedit is very against it and sees in it a real danger that by exaggerating you are doing the opposite of what is intended.”
(Source: The Jewish Cronicle)
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32 Responses
i think this is an extremely horrible decision to ban burqa.
its a stupid and unitelligent decision motivated by cowardlyness
“We have got a Torah and we have got a tradition and these things were never allowed or demanded”
REALLY?
The Mishbah Berurah says that the covering the of the face and the feet is dependant on minhag hamokom. Rashi says that Yehudah did not recognize Tamar because she was always (fully) covered at he father-in-law’s house. So who says that one can’t find a basis for this type of “tznius” in the torah.
As for our Tradition. Do the “mainstream” schools teach their students to respect the dress of their mothers and grandmothers, and follow their tradition? No! They are always looking for new “chumras” for our “dor”.
This is the logical development of the curent tznius campaigns. If we ignore and belittle the dress of our mothers, claiming we are frumer, or that today we are a special generation than it will not, and logicaly should not stop short of a burka.
The Jewish Chronicle is not a reliable source.
#1 i hope that statement was just made to incite comments
please adopt burqa
Sefer Peleh Yoetz, whose author lived in Moslem Sarajevo (Bosnia), praises the tzniusdik dress of Moslem women while railing against the attire of certain Jewish women who, in his considerable opinion, dressed inappropriately.
i was once in a resterant in yerushalayim and one of these crazy women walked in the guy behind the counter got so scared that it was a terrorist he ran out screaming there was a whole commotion till she pulled out her magen dovid necklace saying im jewish people calmed down but it serves her right dont dress like that you wont be harassed
Some of the posters here and especially in The Coffee Room make the Eda Charedit out to be a left wing Orthodox organization.
“The Eda Charedit is very against it and sees in it a real danger that by exaggerating you are doing the opposite of what is intended.”
Everybody calm down and stop your agendas against or for something that has hurt you in the past. The problem here is that they have become a bit of a cult and don’t listen to the Rabbis. By exaggerating their look, they are causing all to indeed look at them. Tzinus is fitting into your society and not standing out. If you stand out in your society, and you don’t want to change, then you should try to find a society that fits you and not be fighting those around you. I find it interesting that the article claims the husbands are asking for help here. Obviously, something is getting out of hand here and I highly doubt that any Rabbinic ban will help.
Actually, the niqab (re’alla) was one of the complaints of the Navi Yeshaya.
1 and 5 is an Arab.
It is very dangerous to dress like that like a Burqa. You never know who is caring a bomb.
So tell me, #2, where is it minhag hamakom? I do mean among Jews, not Moslems. Tell me one community where the Rav has declared that wearing a burka is minhag hamakom.
then again……..today we are in a world with crazy tavas niuf everywhere…….if a husband cant even be attracted to his wife then it might cause them to stumble with other types of entertainment…….the burqas are ridiculous and i think this is a huge step for the eida…….na nach
#6 – Bosnian Muslims do not wear face-covering things. Neither do they wear them anywhere in the Balkan, Turkey, in North Africa, Indonesia, and Africa. It’s a pretty limited thing, mainly found in Iran, Saudi-Arabia (and perhaps Yemen and Oman) and Afghanistan.
As for this report – if it’s true, it’s great. These women must learn that their dress constitutes the very opposite of tznius. Tznius is about being inconspicuous, about people NOT looking at you, about NOT standing out. These women do the exact opposite. Every time I see one, I look at them as if they were creatures from the zoo.
I agree with #2. People are constantly yelling about how untznius women are. It makes sense that some women would decide to start wearing a burqa.
When I graduated from YOB elementary school in 1969, skirts just brushed the bottom of the knee. I have pictures to prove it. Are we better people now just because our skirts are longer?
Taking on a chumra must be in line with your level of Yirass Shomayim.
Chumras are things you take on because your genuinely feel they are appropriate, they are not an means of compensating for kulles in other spheres of behaviour.
The nussach in tefillas hashachar used to be “leolom yihye odom yrei shomayim bseisser” A person should always be G-d fearing in private. Only later versions (Thanks to Eshkol followed by Artscroll) added “ovagolui” and in public. This addition is wrong. Be G-d fearing in private and the public behaviour won’t be a source of chillul Hashem.
#2: By taking the mitzvah if tznius to this extreme, these women are indirectly besmirching the beautiful mitzvah of tznius and taking away the beauty of it, the very same way arabs have through their ‘Jihad’ taken away the meaning and beauty of the mitzvah of the Torah of “mesiras nefesh” (and also ‘religion’ in general in the eyes of the world). As the Gemorah frequently states “derachehah darchei noam”, we must keep all our chumros within reason especially publicly in order to ensure/perserve the beauty of the “pnimious” of our mitzvos and our holy Torah within ourselves and in the eyes of the public.
This is what happens when Bais Yaakovs and the like heap chumros onto girls before they are ready. Woman are naturally inclined to be more sensitive about these things, and are (usually) striving to do more in terms of Avodas Hash-m.
P.S. It doesnt help that every time there is a tzara in Klal Yisroel it is blamed on the tznius of the women.
Obviously these burka women are doing it out of psychological issues of body shame and loss of control. They feel that their way of dress is one way of taking control in much the same way an anorexics takes control over their body by not eating. Maybe the frum media could help women have some pride in their achievements by showing their picture once in a while and not erasing them from Jewish history. Then women would not feel they have to erase themselves literally.
“When I graduated from YOB elementary school in 1969, skirts just brushed the bottom of the knee. I have pictures to prove it. Are we better people now just because our skirts are longer?”
Yes.
Because the ’60 grads dressed inappropriately, does not matir it for eternity.
nowadays hardly anyone takes on chumras to increase their yiras shamayim. people take on chumras b/c it is the latest trend in the yeshivish/chareidi worlds. what these women are doing is keneged halacha and a slap in the face to all of the torah scholars throughout the generatons. and by the way the medrash concerning tamar doesn’t mean that she covered her face.
Number 12. The mishnah berurah does not say that a face covering is against the torah or tradition. He says it is dependant on minhag hamakom. In other words there are some locales where wearing a face covering would be justified. My point is once the mesorah of our mothers are ignored one can find a basis for any chumra one wants and there is no end in sight.
I agree with astrix
Daniel Breslauer. Your comments on the burqa are reminiscint of militant secularism. One might make the same offensive comments about those who wear a tichel or turban. One can disagree about what one considers a proper religious act but refering to other people as animals from the zoo is wholy inappropriate.
maxwell: who are you to say that the 60’s graduates dressed inapropriatly skirts that are knee length aren’t a problem
Number 21: Rashi says ki kasasah paneha that her tamars face was covered bibais aveha in her father in laws house. See sifsei chachamim.
username1a, please do all of us a favor and gai ling in drert.
crazykanoly, you pontificate and preach while you bring all type of proofs from everywhere but you are forgetting a very real point that is Emunas Chachomim. We know that there were times that our chochomim instituted all types of chumras and rulings because they observed a trend that was too much like the goyim. The Arab women are using niqabs and burqas to hide bombs. That is enough of a reason to make a differentiation between the Arabs and ourselves by NOT wearing the burqa and the niqab. We are supposed to trust our chochomim to know the right thing.
#26: Would you consider a man who dresses pulicly with a robe w/o pants and a turban like people had dressed 2,000 years ago a normal man w/o phsycological issues? I’m with # 19 on this.
Can I respectfully ask you, is your opinion driven out of sympathetic feelings for these women’s rights, or is your passion mainly directed at the one sided/intolerant attitude of many in the chareidi public toward women who are less modestly dressed? If your answer is the latter, then I’m with you also in that regard. Chumros are one’s own decision, which should be genuienly driven from one’s own need/drive for perfection and shall not lead to being judgmental on others.
If these husbands need rabbonim to “stand against their wifes”, then I am afraid there is something far less tznius going on. The women are clearly wearing the pants in these households.
i am very ashamed in those who dont understand burqa and then condemn it. i am very curious as to why you cover your hair, is it because you are being modest for men or because your just doing what your told?
i am extremely comfortable around women in burqa, it makes me feel very good and very loved and comfortable. it is nothing more than modesty, please leave these women alone and never critisize them again. and who ever called me an arab i think your not a jew.
PLEASE READ THE NEXT ARTICLE BELOW AND THEN RETHINK YOUR BURQA THEORIES.
username1a, it doesn’t help. We all knew who you are, long before Besmart posted that.
Why did it take 2 years to muster the courage to ban the misogynist garb of those who would dhimmify and murder us?
This practice should have been condemned in no more than 2 weeks, not 2 years.
Where is the political courage?