RoB,
I can not argue with someone who closes their eyes & ears to reality. As I said before, if you want to have a discussion with you defending R’ Kook’s position & me defending (not that they need my defence) the position of all other Gedolim – that’s fine.
But your attempt to rewrite history makes me wonder if perhaps you have not yet put away our Slivovitz from Channukah. 🙂
BTW, I have no idea what upset you so in Itzik’s post.
Josh,
“I studied for 4 years in a Haredei Mesivta (Ner Israel) many years ago, but I can not recall such intensive hatred for the Medina that I hear coming from Joseph, notpashut and now Itzik”
B”H, that probably means you were too busy learning. R’ Aharon Feldman actually has some of the most “hardline” feelings on our subject.
“There is a huge difference between Jewish sinners and the evil of non-Jewish despots.”
I don’t know why you think I should listen to your opinion over the likes of the Chazon Ish & R’ Shteinman.
cantoresq,
“The Rav zt”l said it the the best when he decided to leave the Agudah and join the Mizrachi. He said that gedolim of the Agudah repreented the glorious but fading Jewish past.”
With all due respect to R’ Soloveitchik Ztz”l, anyone who doesn’t now see that the Mizrachi movement is dying a quick death while the glorious tradition of chareidi jewry is growing by leaps & bounds is either living in a cave or in Bellvue.
All the other Gedolim have been proven correct.
Now, a word to all you people who are either totally uneducated or so pretend to be, who attempt to frighten the masses by invoking the dreaded name “Niturai Karta” & associating it with any anti zionist statement.
I’ll be dan lekaf zchus & assume that you really didn’t know this, but for your information the Chazon Ish, Brisker Rav, Tchebiner Rav, R’ Isser Zalman, R’ Zalman Sorotzkin, R’ Chatzkel Abramsky, The Gerrer Rebbes, The Steipler, R’ Shach Yibdl”ch R’ Elyashiv, R’ Shteinman etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. have nothing to do with the niturai karta, don’t support the niturai karta, & frankly think that (at least the modern day version) they are a bunch of whacked out, dangerous nutcases.
Two quick stories about the Niturai Karta once we are on the subject.
R’ Amram Bloi (who was the founder & actually a big Tzaddik & very choshuve yid) once organized & attended a protest of some sort against the Medina.
The next time the Brisker Rav saw him, (after he had almost been beaten to death & been released from jail) the Rav said to him “R’ Amram – you’re a Tzioni!” R’ Amram looked at him in shock (no greater insult than that) & the Rav again said to him “R’ Amram – you’re a Tzioni!”
He than explained “Even according to you, protesting is not yeharaig v’al ya’avor, therefore, by definition, if you DO protest, it’s because you believe that the Tzionim won’t kill you. If you’re naive enough to believe that, then you’re a Tzioni yourself.”
The Chazon Ish once commented “The Neturai Karta are Yidden, but they’re Yidden from before Matan Torah.” He then explained that being that they listen to themselves & not the Torah, they must be from before Matan Torah.
BTW, since RoB doesn’t believe anything without a source (& even then it depends what it says) you can find these tidbits (& many other good ones) in the book “Bimchitzasam” by R’ Shlomo Lorincz. The quote from R’ Yakov Emden I heard on a tape from R’ Reisman.
And if you want to see some real good anti zionist venom why don’t you check out the book about the well known right wing intolerant radical, flag burning, stone throwing, hatred spewing…. RAV PAM!