Gavra,
notpashut:
“Since you offered, I would like to see the list of “100 Gedolai Olam” who are Machmir on being Mevaze members of Klal Yisroel who as R’ Weinberg said are “Tinok Shenishba”.
Apparently you have not been following the conversation.
I had said that I could provide a list of 100 Gedolai Olam that don’t subscribe to the views of Chabad & R’ Kook Ztz”l. Therefore even though RoB DOES subscribe to those views (which he has full right to do) he should leave everybody else alone, being that they have even more backing than himself.
What does that have to do with being mevaze a tinok shenishba?
Of course that is assur!
Rob,
If I may quote some of your words:
“This is why I said that “sadly” today, the people and Rabbonim instinctively dismiss the more lenient view. My view is that this goes againt the grain of the purpose of halocho and this view does NOT have the same validity for the klal.”
“The machlokes of the eiruv in Boro Park is the example how far we have strayed from this in recent years. Many,many kehillos have always used Kullos for an eiruv and it was accepted for the klal.In Boro Park, the severity of the machlokes is the sad result of a new apporach today.I can add the question of agunos, geirim and others. Bais hillel should be our example and, sadly, it is not what many of today’s Rabbonim do.”
“I fully agree with you that it is incumbent upon us to be MACHMIR in hilchos ahavas yisroel. The problem you might have is that this approach is prevalent in two machanos that do not necessarily walk in lockstep with the “chareidi” world. These machanos are Chabad, which are the main exponents of this approach, and the talmidim of Rav Kook, who said that the antidote to “sinas chinom”, which destroyed the second Bays, is “ahavas chinom”. This is why he accepted the secular Zionists because he felt that the achdus of Klal yisroel was more important than the esoteric philosophical differences between the different factions.
I fully suscribe to the view of both machanos.”
“But when you start rejecting prefectly good geirim because you have a political agenda or you call people who rely upon a certain eiruv ‘mechallelei shabbos” because they carry on shabbos, or you refuse to search for a hetter for agunos when the need is so dire,well, this is a lack of ahavas yisroel..
I am not bashing anyone nor can you show that I ‘bash’ anyone. I accept the chareidi olam (I am one of them)and I am pretty well accepted by them. My dispute is with the view that the world can only live on chumros, patently a false assumption.”
What crops up in your words over & over again is the sentiment that the Rabbonim are idiots but YOU really understand how g-d wants a jew to behave.
The Rabbonim are idiots but YOU really understand how g-d wants a Rav to pasken.
The Rabbonim are idiots but YOU really understand which issues are being neglected.
The Rabbonim are sonei yiroel but YOU are an oheiv yisroel.
So you know what? You are right. I should not have said that you “bash” chareidim.
I should have that you are mevaze Gedolim.
For myself, I’ll stick with the Gedolim.
Now a clarification for other posters:
I am not saying & never said that everyone has to listen to chareidi Gedolim. I happen to believe that anyone who doesn’t is mistaken, but that is just my opinion – everyone else can do whatever they want.
Now, the FACT is that when Chareidim critisise (rightly or WRONGLY) other types of jews, they ALWAYS do so on the basis of what the Gedolim said, what the Gedolim hold or what the halacha is.
They understand that a Gadol is someone who is on a totally different spiritual level then themselves & look up to the Gedolim for that.
What truly disgusts me is when people post all kinds of garbage against Gedolim because “I THINK THE GEDOLIM ARE WRONG”.
With all due respect – Who the heck are you? You’re some guy sitting in the YWN coffee room shooting off your mouth against R’ Avigdor Miller? Shooting off your mouth against R’ Elyashiv? You think R’ Elyasiv needs your advice on the agunos? What do you think – YOU have ahavas yisroel but R’ Shteinmen couldn’t care less?
Are you nuts?
(BTW All the geirim were passuled by a MIZRACHI Rabbi)
To be perfectly honest, from all the non-chareidi or anti-chareidi posters the ONLY ONE who comes off as being sincere, respectful & not full of themselves is SJSinNYC.
When she has a question about the hanhagos of chareidim she asks, she doesn’t spew hatred.
When she gets an answer – if it makes sense to her, she says thank you. If not, she asks again.
SHE DOES NOT HAVE AN AGENDA.
SHE DOES NOT THINK SHE IS G-D’S GIFT TO THE WORLD.
SHE DOES NOT INSULT, BELITTLE OR SPEW HATRED TOWARD CHAREIDIM FOR INSULTING, BELITTLING & SPEWING HATRED TOWARD MO.
SHE IS NOT A HYPOCRITE.
I have never gotten into an insult-fest with her & EVERY time we have debated we have either reached common ground or agreed to disagree pleasently.
In case all of you haven’t noticed by now I’m pretty disgusted by the hypocricy of all the chareidi bashers.
I’m sorry for all the ranting & raving but I’ve just had it with all the self-righteous rabbonim bashers complaining about the chareidim being self-righteous. Spewing hatred from one side of their mouths while saying they practice “Ahavas Chinam” from the other side. Who do you think you’re fooling?