To my dear RabbiofBerlin: Firstly let me unconditionally apologize for upsetting you, that was not my intention but rather to bring out the points clearly and strongly. I was simply trying to show how not following daas Torah in those times led to Reform. Please dont take my comments personally, they are not meant to be personal (as you said I dont have the faintest idea who you are anyway) but look at the issues…
Your assertion about me that anyone who argues with MY Godol is a kofer etc., I simply do not understand where you read that. In fact I totally disagree with that outlook as I continuously am arguing that Ger should follow the Gerrer Rebbe, Satmar – the Satmar Rebbe, Litvaks – their Roshei Yeshivos etc. My point is that there is a correct Jewish attitude of daas Torah and to just do away with it is wrong. We all agree as I have said time and time again that our Gedolim are not gods and yes they can make mistakes but they do have the extra siyata dishmaya to guide them. According to chassidic sources part of this siyata dishmaya comes from the fact that people trust and believe in them as Gedolim (even Moshe Rabeinu was told “?? ??” ie your madreiga goes down together with your followers when they sin – a Godol’s madreiga can be lifted or lowered by his followers). There is a famous moshol of a poor farmer whose only cow died and he decided naively to travel to the king for help. After weeks of travel he arrived in the capital and assumed the first large building must be the palace. After eventually finding the king’s residence he met a man dressed in a uniform and assumed that he is the king and poured out his heart to him. The servant realized the mistake and played on and promised him a new cow immediately. Eventually the king heard about the story and immediately provided the farmer with a cow so as not to allow the farmer to think that the king is a liar BUT simultaneously the servant was thrown into prison for pretending to be the king and promisng things in the king’s name. The nimshal is obvious, the Gedolim who are indeed fitting will advise and direct as honest emissaries of the King whilst even those who maybe are not, HaShem will ensure correct advice so as not to cause chillul HaShem but the punishments are reserved for those who speak in the King’s name unjustifiably. The bottom line is that HaShem will ensure that us lowly “farmers” will get the right advice and direction.
Furthermore, you have said “The idea that a Godol or Rov has the ABSOLUTE knowledge for everything and that one has to acccept all his sayings is ABSOLUTELY not the Jewish way. No one is infallible in our tradition. No one- not even Moshe rabbeinu- has absolute knowledge.
If you deny that- then you belong to a different religion.
This is my view, and everything else follows naturally.” Well, I will surprise you and say that I agree. We only differ in the conclusions. You understand that to mean that one may follow ones own heart and thoughts in all matters other than halocho since in everything besides halocho we are all equal to the Gedolim. I disagree totally with that outlook for the reasons outlined above and those expressed by notpashut. I mentioned to you on other occasions the difference between our negios and a Godol’s negios with the moshol of the ice on the river that cracked. Yes, yiras shomayim and siyata dishmaya are valid concepts that you still have never answered.
cantoresq: Your answers were a delight to read and I will honestly say that they made me think….
1) I do not understand your train of thought, why must daas Tora have to be absolute for everyone? Why can’t it be Divine will that A should vote X and B to vote Y? Who HaShem wants should win is a different question and HaShem will insure that His desired candidate will win anyway. This idea that we must do what is right anyway regardless of the consquences and HaShem will worry about the outcome is all over in Chazal. Tomor was prepared to die so as not to embarrass Yehuda even though she was carrying the future of Klal Yisroel (the ancestors of ????? ??? ??? and ??? ?????), to cite one example. Our job is not to ensure results but to act in the correct way and the results will follow. Once you accept this basis then, I think, your arguement falls away. It is not a contradiction in Divine will for one Gadol to say vote X and another to say vote Y as nobody is saying that they are telling us who HaShem wants should WIN but how HaShem wants us to act and vote. Therefore it can be correct that Ger should vote X and Litvaks Y as I have argued all along.
2) Here you touch on another very valid point. Chazal tell us “??? ?? ??”, how to choose is another subject BUT once you have chosen then stay there and dont move around at your own convenience. If you are a Gerrer then follow the Gerrer Rebbe ALWAYS etc.
3) This question was once asked to the Ponovhez Rov ztl after a speech where he compared the Jews to an army. Just as an army has different units for different duties – a navy for sea fighting, an airforce, tank units, foot soldiers – each to his purpose but combining to win the war, so too the Yidden have chassidim, litvaks, sephardim etc. each to his purpose but combining to do Divine will. The question was then asked about the position of Conservative and Reform as they too are part of the “army”. The Ponovhez Rov ztl answered on the spot, of course they are part of the army, they are the deserters…. Need I add another word!
4) Your final comment was indeed the hardest to answer!! You phrased it very well!! It is however answerable from both sides. Reb Moshe Feinstein ztl was once asked by a journalist what made him so famous to all Jews? He replied that a lady once asked him a shaila, liked his answer, told her friends who then came too and they continued to spread the word until he became world famous. Gedolim are not born gedolim but become Gedolim. This is a lifetime work of continuous effort in avodas HaShem and something that is almost impossible to imitate (Exceptions like Shabetai Tzvi deserve a separate thread). Gedolim dont know Divine will because they are gedolim but because they are living their whole lives bekedusha ubetahara and immersed continuously in divrei Torah and yiras shomayim. This entitles them to the siyata dishmaya and ability to judge situations according to the Torah and its Writer.
Similarly, HaShem plants in every generation a select few to be these leaders of klal Yisroel – ??? ??? ????????. This is included in the brocho of ?? ?????? ??? ?????? ???’ and therefore HaShem ensures that His leaders are available and accessible in each generation and it is OUR job to follow them.
In short, a Godol knows Divine will because he has worked on himself all his life to be a fitting messenger of HaShem AND because HaShem has chosen him.