Is there any purpose to a posting that tries to mediate between Think BIG and cantoresq? Maybe not, but I’ll try.
Cantoresq, I hope to be as ardent a Zionist as you and I have said publicly (check my posts)that the chareidim are wrong in not taking a larger part in the medinah (BTW, chareidm were chalutzim too and worked the earth as the others. Not today ,sadly, but then no one does anymore) and I do feel that they are absolutely wrong in not joining the army,although it seems to be that changes may be in the air now.
I do take exception to your description of the “weak and cowering ghetto jew of yore”. It is a diservice to generations of jews who continued to keep the flame of yiddishkeit alive through the most difficult times of our history. Jews wer not the only ones who -as you say- ‘cowered” in the face of greater might. Check your history. Until the 19th century, few countries were independent and most people “cowered’ before the mightier armies. I prefer to honor the memories of my forefathers who lived and labored valiantly under very difficult circumstances.
Think BIG, I am not going to repeat the debate we had over the past days, but here again,I will take exception to by your first paragraph.”chochi veoitzem jodi’ there might have been, but there also was a real attempt at fusing the Zionist ideals with Torah. And as to your assertion that ‘the long and bitter galus will come to an end with Moshiach Zitkeinu”, The gemoro (shmuel,rabbi akiva,etc) and the Rambam seem to indicate that it is in our hands to start the geulah.And this is the basis upon which Rav Kook zz’l based his whole approahc to Eretz Yisroel. (btw, he was a talmid of Volozhin)