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Dutch Jews have a custom of waiting at least one hour after eating fleishig before milchig.
1) When Dutch Jews make aliya, do they keep their *one hour between fleishig and milchig* custom in EY?
2) Do most people know that Dutch keep just one hour?
(I just learned about it yesterday.)
3) Wondering how that works when two children are friends and one waits one hour and the other six.
Also3) Do you explain to your child that since he/she isn’t Dutch, he/she must wait six hours (or whatever is your custom), while his/her friend is already eating a milchig snack?
4) Is it like any other custom that follows from the father, like kitniyot and Sephardim?
5) If you’re Dutch and at an Ashkenazi friend’s house, can you eat milchig there after an hour?
Thank you
Again, you are asking some questions that require a psak from a Rav not the CR.
A person’s personal minhag generally does not change when they move somewhere else. In addition, it does not matter if the homeowner waits longer and the guest doesn’t.
One explains to children that there are different customs as to waiting between meat and dairy. While your friend waits a shorter period we wait longer.
Is this a Dutch Ashkenazic shitta or a Dutch Sephardic shitta?
Does a kehilla of frum Dutch Yidden still exist today that follows this shitta?
The Yekkes (Germans) wait three hours, not six; so there’s already a difference between different Yidden in this regard, even without considering the Dutch.
Do Sephardim by and large keep six hours?
It is Dutch Ashkenazi, and has more of a firm basis in halocha than even 3 hours. I can’t remember the exact mekor, but it is easy to find right there in the beginning of Shulchan aruch yoreh deah.
The kehilla in Holland still keep it, as well as many Dutch descended Jews.
LB, to answer your question; I think it is like standing or sitting for Kiddush, or washing before or after kiddush. A minhag goes after the husband generally, and doesn’t matter where you end up in the world.
The OU has a blog on their website that discusses the different waiting times. Search the OUKOSHER site for “the-halachot-of-waiting-between-meals”.
[Original Dutch Jews wait only one hour.]If a woman of German descent, who is accustomed to waiting three hours, marries a man who waits six hours, she must then wait six hours. Similarly, if a woman who waits six hours marries a man of German descent who waits three hours, she may then wait only three hours.
It’s in Yoreh Deah Siman 89, Seif 1. The Shulchan Aruch there says that you have to wait 6 hours. The Rema says that you only have to wait one hour, but some are makpid to wait 6 hours and this is the right thing to do (“??? ???? ?????”).
The Shach and Taz there say that one should really wait 6 hours and not rely on the lenient opinion of 1 hour.
TAZ: ??? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??? ????
Shach: :?”? ??? ???? ????? …??? ???? ????? ??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ????
The Dutch kehilla has the Minhag of waiting 1 hour as per the Rema. When I learned these halachos, I learned that it is not completely clear where the German minhag of 3 hours comes from. It may be a compromise between the opinion of 1 hour and the opinion of 6 hours.
I need to move to Amsterdam….
From “The Laws of Kashrus” by Rav Binyomin Forst” (pgs. 198-199)
The overwhelming majority of Poskim require that one wait six hours between meat and dairy. However, Sefardic and AShkenazic tradition differ in acceptance of the six-hour respite. According to Sefardic tradition, the six-hour respite is halachically required. It follows those opinions that interpret the Talmud in that manner. Ashkenazic tradition follows the lenient opinion in theory. Nevertheless, in practice, the six-hour respite was accepted almost universally among Ashkenazic Jews as well. Poskim declare that this is the proper conduch for anyone “imbued with the spirit of Torah”.
However, certain communities continued to follow the original Ashkenaic custom of reciting a brachah acharonah, waiting only one hour, and cleaning the mouth. This custom is found today among original Dutch Jews. Jews originating from Germany continue today their tradition of waiting three hours after eating meant.
This custom is perhaps based on the theory that during a short winter day the span between meals is shortened corresponding to the length of the day. Thus, the shorter waiting span should be sufficient at any time of the year.
While these customs are acceptable for one whose family tradition is such, others may not choose to follow these customs. The accepted tradition among the majority of Jews to wait six hours is binding upon everyone, unless his tradition is clearly otherwise. One who changes his custom to follow a more lenient custom is soundly censured by halachic authorities.
there are varying customs even regarding the 6-hour wait. The different shittos are explained in any decent kashrus sefer, and are very basically 1) 6 full hours, 2) 5 1/2 hours (majority of 6th hour), 3)Into the 6th hour (5hrs + 1 moment)
Nowadays, I believe everyone calculates this with 60-minute hours. Did people used to use seasonal hours (shorter in the winter, longer in the summer)?
Yehudayona: I was recently told it is based on 60 minute hours not shaah zmaniyos.
yehudayona
the Pri Chadash says it is Shaos Zemaniyos, though this is certainly not the mainstream view
That means sometimes you’ll have to wait *longer* than 6 hours (based on 60 minutes).
Joseph
“That means sometimes you’ll have to wait *longer* than 6 hours (based on 60 minutes).”
Yes, one of the noseh keilim points this out (I forget off hand bais meir? Yad Efraim? Chavos Daas?) though the Pri Chadash focuses on the winter when wait would be shorter.
Again though, as mentioned this isnt the mainstream view.
Yungerman, thanks for pointing out the different ways of defining 6 hours.
These opinions are based on the fact that it says ??? ???? (I think in the Rambam). Literally, that means “like 6 hours”, so some say it just has to be almost 6 hours or “into the sixth hour”.
I hadn’t mentioned those opinions in my post, since my posts were long enough, and I was just explaining the different shitas regarding how many hours to keep without going into specifics of how people define 6 hours.
So I appreciate your pointing it out. I would just add though that if someone doesn’t have a specific minhag, they probably should not keep less than 6 full hours on the clock until and unless they ask a sheilah and are told otherwise.
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