Who Were They?

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  • December 4, 2016 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #618773
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    This week’s parsha tells us of Malachim going up and down on the ladder. Who were they? I’ve fascinating stuff I came across I want to first hear what the ‘olam’ here says.

    December 4, 2016 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #1199431
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    Seems like no one is interested in this. So I’m gonna have to talk to myself.

    Ansewer #1) The malachim of Eretz Yisroel were going up. Those of chutz l’aretz were going down.

    December 4, 2016 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #1199433
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    well you said that you didn’t want to be followed…

    December 5, 2016 1:20 am at 1:20 am #1199434
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    OK

    Answer #2) Two Malachim who protested to HaShem, why he made man. They desecned, to be tested, and fell… They were banished and had to wait for this opportunity. Another version reads (I think, malachim who said ?? ??????? ?????, they took credit for themselves, it was they who had to wait for this opportune time.

    Answer #3) (read somewhere) Malachim who descended from above in the time of ????, they tried to seduce her. She asked for their wings and they gave it. She flew to safety (forgot where), they stood without their wings, thus needed a ladder to get back up.

    Answer #4) It was young Malachim, they didn’t know how to use their wings. So they needed a ladder.

    I KID YOU NOT. These are taken from Seforim Hakedoshim. I, for one, have no inkling about what I just wrote. But it’s ???? ????? ????.

    LuL: I’m dead serious on this one.

    (did I ever joke?)

    Really appreciate this. Thanks so much.

    December 12, 2016 1:19 pm at 1:19 pm #1199435
    ☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲
    Participant

    Can you post the Chizkuni too?

    December 12, 2016 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #1199436
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    Didn’t get a chance to look it up. What does he say?

    December 13, 2016 9:37 pm at 9:37 pm #1199437
    B1g B0y
    Participant

    There is a p’shat that these malaachim going up were the malaachim that were sent to destroy sedom. They were put in cherem b/c they told lot that they were going to destroy sedom and only afterwards mentioned that Hashem sent them. They were finally allowed back to shamayim via this ladder. When they got up to shamayim and saw the face of yaakov on the merkava, they told the other malaachim that “downstairs” there was someone who looked just like that. The malaachim all ran down to check it out.

    If you say like LF in #1 that the malaachim of E”Y were going up and Chutz la’aretz were coming down, then it would first say coming down and then say going up b/c yaakov should never be without escorts.

    (I believe that this is a Dvar Yechezkel)

    December 15, 2016 11:40 am at 11:40 am #1199438
    ☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲
    Participant

    Someone beat me to it. From Rabbi Etan Tokayer:

    [T]he Targum Yerushami cited by the Chizkuni explains that the malachim escorts were so excited by the presence of Yaakov Avinu that the went up to the Heavens to let all the other malachim know they had the chance to see a celebrity – Yaakov Avinu whose face was engraved on the Kisei Hakavod.”

    (B1g B0y, that was this – “Another version reads (I think), malachim who said ?? ??????? ?????, they took credit for themselves, it was they who had to wait for this opportune time.”)

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