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This person is presumably fine on medication…would this scare you away and why? I’m happy he has gotten help and does not self medicate with etoh or the illegal substances (not that I know of)…If I had a severe psych problem and thought I needed medication I think I would try therapy first before getting an Rx.
Your personal choice. BUt I would be hesitant to date someone like this because there may come a time when he decides to stop taking his meds. I have heard cases where this has happened and resulted in divorce because off meds life became horror for the other spouse.
So far, I have always said no to anyone on medication. But on the other hand, I know someone who married someone on medication and had a great marriage.
I don’t know if you are male or female, but I think that guys have to be particularly cautious about marrying girls on medication.They may be fine while on medication, but when they are expecting, they usually have to go off or decrease their medication and then serious problems can arise.
I know of at least one case in which the couple got divorced because of this. I know of another case in which they didn’t get divorced but the wife had a serious major breakdown after giving birth, which Boruch Hashem, she recovered from, but it took a few weeks.
If you are seriously considering going out with the person, you should definitely do serious investigations beforehand. Find out how long the person has been on medication, how good they are about taking the medication and if they have had any issues since they have been on the medication.
It is also important to realize that in some circles, taking medication has become quite common-place, so it might not have the same meaning it once did. I have heard that in the Western world, approximately 1/3 or 1/4 of the population is on medication. I doubt that these statistics are true for the Yeshivish world, but they may have some truth for some segments of the Orthodox population. So there may be people taking medication today who would never have thought of taking medication at one time. I think that medication today is safer than it used to be so some people consider it like taking Tylenol.
That being said, I personally wouldn’t want to marry someone on medication. But that is a personal decision based to some extent on personal factors, and it may not be the right decision for everyone.
This sounds like a question that he is most qualified to answer.
Anxiety meds usually don’t change a personality. If they do, it’s usually negative.
Wouldn’t widespread refusal to date otherwise healthy individuals on meds encourage such individual to drop their medication before starting shidduchim so that they needn’t disclose that they’re on meds?
Someone who is taking medication for anxiety is showing that they want to change into a healthy functioning human being. How in the world is that a reason not to go on a date with them?
That is a good point Joseph, but I still don’t think that I (or anyone else) should do something harmful for myself in order to prevent such a scenario.
Also, I wouldn’t date someone who needed to be on anxiety medication but wasn’t anymore than I would date the one who is taking the medication.
But each person has to make his own cheshbonos. There have been people who married someone who was on medication and had great marriages. It depends both on the one taking the medication and the one marrying them.
I don’t want to be the one responsible for discouraging a shidduch that could work, especially since I don’t know so much about the topic. But it is definitely kidai to research the topic beforehand.
In terms of how he is when he is not on the medication, is there a way to find out? Does he have a psychiatrist or psychologist that he would give you permission to speak to? It might be kidai to find out. I have gotten permission to speak to potential shidduchim’s therapists.
Also, try to get a sense for how responsible he is for taking his medication. Also, you should try to find out what he is like while taking the medication. The medication might not solve all his problems, so that is something you would want to find out.
Suppose the person were taking seizure meds? or ADHD meds? Would the situation change then? Are you going to track down the reason for every antibiotic on the slim chance it was prescribed because of some horrible disease that no Ben/Bas Yisroel should have? Suppose the person has bad genes and is taking high blood pressure meds, cholesterol meds, or diabetes meds? Suppose the person is a Type I diabetic or has the BRCA gene?
Maybe the shidduch crisis that has been so popularized is because we have certain people who are waiting for everything to line up to their satisfaction buoyed by people telling them that they have all the advantages and can afford to wait; perhaps those others who ‘act’ more desperate are more down-to-earth and know that Mr./Ms. Perfect won’t come because HaShem gave us an imperfect situation for the express purpose of testing us and having us grow?
Maybe the increased divorce rate is because people think they found the perfect one and discover that they aren’t? Barring situations in which all would agree are untenable, when faced with a minor problem do these people throw in the towel or rely on their maturity to work through it?
Every person has their bashert but whether they miss them (yes, you can miss your bashert) because of their own preconceptions is up to them.
“Someone who is taking medication for anxiety is showing that they want to change into a healthy functioning human being. How in the world is that a reason not to go on a date with them?”
It’s not the fact that they are taking the medication but the fact that they NEED the medication in the first place.
lilmod, how would you know he isn’t taking medication that he needs?
You can only know he’s taking meds because (or, rather, if) he discloses that.
If he should be on medication for anxiety and isn’t, I would be able to tell when I go out with him. And if I can’t, then he probably doesn’t need to be on medication.
It’s not the fact that they are taking the medication but the fact that they NEED the medication in the first place.
lilmod, how would you know he isn’t taking medication that he needs?
You can only know he’s taking meds because (or, rather, if) he discloses that.
So? (Why does that make it any less an issue?)
Wouldn’t widespread refusal to date otherwise healthy individuals on meds encourage such individual to drop their medication before starting shidduchim so that they needn’t disclose that they’re on meds?
As opposed to disclosing that they’re depressed or anxious? And that they’d be taking meds except that they don’t want to disclose it?
Sounds like a way better discussion
I don’t see why not..it’s not like a person is completely insane or isn’t normal just because they have anxiety. First of all, there are all different types of anxiety and there’s nothing bad about it. If a person was on meds for being a psycho, then I wouldn’t date them. However, while your’e dating someone you really need to go deep in investigation because there can be other problems aside from having anxiety.
I don’t think it’s that different from diabetes.
It takes a lot of decision making for someone to decide to go on meds. It also takes a lot of adjustment, tweaking, and acclimating to get to the point where meds are helpful. This is a decision which nobody makes lightly, and it’s a serious decision- meds which are brain altering can literally change personality.
So there are probably plenty of people out there who should be on meds but aren’t- and that’s a valid call to make. I am close with people who are on meds, should be on meds but aren’t, and could go either way (and generally have not elected to start). It’s such a weighty decision that you can assume that those who are on meds are taking them with great care and under the guidance of medical professionals- and many who should be on meds are not necessarily under any guidance. If done well, meds can be amazing for many people, and certainly, there are risks- but there are much bigger risks than going out with someone who is on doctor-controlled medication. (I would recommend only going out with someone who has been on the same medication successfully for a reasonably long period of time- different meds can wreak havoc on a person if they’re wrong and it can take a while to hit upon the right med at the right dose.)
tl;dr- yes, I’d go out with someone on meds. And a good chunk of the above argument came from someone very close to me in her decision to go on meds even as she was concerned about shidduchim.
RY: Non-diabetic people with anxiety typically don’t have sugar restrictions for their diet. Diabetics do.
“RY: Non-diabetic people with anxiety typically don’t have sugar restrictions for their diet. Diabetics do.”
Why is that important when deciding whether or not to marry someone. You can still eat the way you want to. Now, if I had to give up sugar, that would be a serious consideration, but why should I care what my husband eats?
“I don’t think it’s that different from diabetes.”
Some people won’t go out with someone who has diabetes.
In any case, they are two different things. One is a physical ailment, and one is a personality/psychological ailment. There are some people who would not go out with someone with diabetes but would go out with someone who has anxiety, and others who would not go out with someone who has anxiety but would go out with someone who has diabetes. They both are reasonable decisions. Each person has to know himself and has to know which things are an issue for him.
Of course, we don’t want to create a situation in which anyone who has some kind of issue can’t get married. But that doesn’t have to be the case. Everyone has to think carefully about which things would be a problem for him personally and which things wouldn’t. For every issue that a person can have, there is someone who would go out with people who have that issue (unless the problem is one that renders him unmarriageable). The important thing is that one should be honest with himself and not be acting on prejudice on the one hand but at the same time, not to be so open-minded that he does something stupid.
Personally, I avoid going out with people who are more intense than I am because I think it would be a really bad idea for me, since I am very intense and I think I need someone more chilled than me. So that is why I certainly wouldn’t want to marry someone with anxiety issues.
The person I know who married someone on medication was a really chilled-out person, so that may be the reason that he was able to deal with it.
So you believe that whether a potential shidduch match is diabetic or not should not be factor whether someone dates or marries him/her, correct?
Another important thing to look into before making this decision: Find out if it is heriditary and how heriditary it is. If it is heriditary, you should think carefully about whether or not you would be able to handle kids who have anxiety issues. Yes, I realize that in any case, you don’t know how your kids will turn out, but if there is a likely chance that most or all of your kids will have anxiety problems and that is something that you can’t handle, that is something to think about.
I know people who got divorced because of shalom bayis problems arising from the fact that their wives and most of their kids had ADHD. I don’t know all of the details, and anxiety may be very different from ADHD, but it is kidai to look into it before making a decision, imho.
“So you believe that whether a potential shidduch match is diabetic or not should not be factor whether someone dates or marries him/her, correct?”
Was that said in response to me or to RY? I didn’t say that (as you can see from one of my above posts that was probably not posted yet when you posted yours).
I was just trying to understand why the sugar restriction should be a factor.
Did Hashem give this guy a beshert? What’s the point of someone, anyone ever marrying him?
Seriously. Because I take medications, will not get pregnant ever because of the risks to my life (in pregnancy and post-partum), and I don’t even have the chiyuv (or according to some of you, and rabbonim, I do have the chiyuv) to marry and be fruitful and multiply.
What about this bochur? Is he hopeless then?
He is not hopeless. He just needs to marry someone who feels like they can handle his issues. Like I said, I know someone who married someone on medication (someone whom I had thought could not get married) and they had a great marriage. I think that was because he knew what he was getting into and he felt that he was capable of handling it, which he was. She had a baby and did have a nervous breakdown for a few weeks afterwards, but it didn’t shter him. He had understood what he was getting into and he was able and willing to handle it.
I suspect that part of the reason he married her might be that on the one hand he had certain things that may have made shidduchim hard for him, but those were not things that she cared about, and on the other hand, he was extremely emotionallly healthy and a very happy, chilled-out person, so he was able to deal with her issues. So basically, they were a good balance for each other.
No one is perfect, and everyone has to marry someone with imperfections. You just have to make sure that they are imperfections that you can deal with (even taking into account that every marriage requires work and acceptance).
LU -“I have heard that in the Western world, approximately 1/3 or 1/4 of the population is on medication. I doubt that these statistics are true for the Yeshivish world”
You’re right! I heard of a doctor in Lakewood that puts half of his female patients on anxiety meds!
I would not risk my marriage on such thin ice. Such a wife could turn on you at any moment. They make for dangerous inlaws too. Unfortunately, I’ve seen it before.
Excellence -“I would not risk my marriage on such thin ice. Such a wife could turn on you at any moment. They make for dangerous inlaws too. Unfortunately, I’ve seen it before.”
You’re right when it comes to women; but the OP was talking about a guy!
I’ll quote:
“I’m happy he has gotten help and does not self medicate with etoh or the illegal substances”
“You’re right when it comes to women; but the OP was talking about a guy!”
Why should it be different for men? I’m not saying I agree that it’s true for either, but if it’s true for one, why not for the other?
I know, I was just saying. Unfortunately, I’ve seen it happen to people. His wife suddenly turned on him with false accusations. Later it was discovered that her friend was whispering in her ear, so she could get rid of the husband and carry her fetus, because said friend kept losing her own babies.
On another occasion it was to get rid of the husband so the relative – yemach shema – could have more inheritance from the wealthy father inlaw.
I feel it is important to marry a wife who is strong minded, intelligence, mature, discerning. I would not marry just anyone vacuous headed woman. Not when I have seen about 5 marriages around me end after one or two years. I don’t care that I am getting older and am still alone. I wont compromise my standard.
It’s hideous that people don’t take it seriously.
“You’re right when it comes to women; but the OP was talking about a guy!”
Okay so I definitely don’t support this claim.
However, there could be a difference between men and women, seeing that a woman may need to reduce, change, or eliminate her medications during pregnancy. If she is having multiple pregnancies, then the frequent and extended disruptions to her treatment may cause more stress on her.
Even revving up coping strategies sans medications may not be possible or available if she is juggling being a full-time mom. And what mother, no matter where she spends her daytime hours, isn’t a full-time mother with additional heavy demands, compared to pre-married life?
That’s my guess
LU -“Why should it be different for men?”
You yourself just brought down a case in the topic called Obamacare etc., that a woman seeked an abortion for emotional problems!
That’s why!!!
hudi – Admittedly I did not read all the comments (only some), so it could be that I am repeating what someone else already said. Here is my opinion.
In today’s fast pace stressful world, a world that is both fragile and often without mentors to guide us, it is common place for many people to seek psychologists and psychiatrists. These doctors used to be referred to as “quacks” in my youth. The reason they were called that was because the only people that needed their services were people that were severely disturbed. Nowadays, many healthy people require their services and it is not as embarrassing to admit going to a psychologists or psychiatrists as in the old days. Many many people go today and anxiety is ranked as the 7th top psychological disorder in the US (I just looked it up). In general, I was surprised to learn that 1 in 5 adults today are treated every year for psychological disorders (just looked that up as well). Thus, if a person is being treated for anxiety it is not necessarily a “Red Flag”.
However, with that said, there are several things for you need to clarify and consider before going out with someone on psychotic medications.
1) What is the reason he is on Anxiety medication? Is he presently dealing with high stress issues or does he have a mental disorder? If the latter you need to know what and how sever.
2) How does he act when not on medication?
3) If he has a mental disorder what are the potential impacts it can have on your relationship if you get married? Can you live with those impacts?
4) Is he only going to a psychiatrists or is he also going to a psychologists? If he only has a short term anxiety issue then he does not necessarily need a psychologists. However, depending on the issue, if he suffers chronic anxiety he should be seeing a psychologists as well. If he is not, it may be wise to reconsider going out with him.
Note: It is incorrect to rely on advice and opinions of Shadchanim. They have self interests that can cloud their perspective in these matters. You need to consult with a 3rd party, someone wise and experienced in these matters and discuss it with him/her. Best if you can consult with someone who knows you personally and who takes an interest in your well being. It is also wise to consult with a professional psychiatrists or psychologists to discuss the ramifications of living with someone with his types of issues.
It is good that you are not taking the issue lightly and seeking advice. May Hashem help you get the right advise and help you make the right decision in this matter.
LUL: The reason that it is different for men is that when a woman is pregnant and/or nursing there are medicines that she cannot take for those reasons and she may have to come off of her medicine in order to get pregnant, during the pregnancy, and if she wants to nurse. That whole time period can be devastating to a marriage if the woman reverts to a state that the man is not familiar with or capable of coping with. She is not “the woman I married” and may or may not return to that state once she is back on meds. It is not a simple situation for a woman on anxiety/depression meds. For men, none of these concerns exist obviously. If he is responsible and takes his medication, there is no pressing need for him to go off of them unless they are no longer effective.
Excellence -“I would not risk my marriage on such thin ice. Such a wife could turn on you at any moment. They make for dangerous inlaws too. Unfortunately, I’ve seen it before.”
Health – “You’re right when it comes to women; but the OP was talking about a guy!”
LU -“Why should it be different for men?”
Health- “You yourself just brought down a case in the topic called Obamacare etc., that a woman seeked an abortion for emotional problems!
That’s why!!!”
The discussion here was about the wife “turning on her husband”. The issue in the other thread was about a women who was unable to manage all the additional work involved with an additional baby.
1. That doesn’t necessarily mean that she would turn on her husband. Is your point that you think that women are more likely to “turn on their husbands” because they are under more stress?
In that case, that should be stated. Otherwise, it sounds like you think that there is something in women’s genetic makeup that makes them more likely to “turn on their husbands”.
2. I don’t see why this would only apply to women. A man could also find the additional baby to be stressful. Maybe the financial burden is too much pressure for him, or maybe his wife needs a lot of help, etc. Or besides for a baby, there could be other factors in a man’s life that he might find as stressful as this lady found having a baby. I once went out with a twice-divorced guy who told me that he isn’t planning on having kids the next time around becaus he can’t afford to pay any more child-support. (no, I’m not kidding. yes, that was the last date).
side point: it wasn’t actually an abortion. It was a less-complicated and less-halachically problematic procedure.
LU -“The discussion here was about the wife “turning on her husband”. The issue in the other thread was about a women who was unable to manage all the additional work involved with an additional baby.”
No it wasn’t!
Obviously you missed my previous post of:
“You’re right when it comes to women; but the OP was talking about a guy!
I’ll quote:”
“I’m happy he has gotten help and does not self medicate with etoh or the illegal substances”
“In that case, that should be stated. Otherwise, it sounds like you think that there is something in women’s genetic makeup that makes them more likely to “turn on their husbands”.”
Exactly – the latter!
Wow, this has been very disheartening to read. How did we get to the point that the shidduch process has become looking for a perfect person? Every one has flaws, and for many people it’s a flaw in their biological makeup that gives them a predisposition for an anxiety disorder. People on anxiety medicine are not choosing to be anxious. Would you turn down a person who has asthma or diabetes? (Well if you said no to that as well, then I am disappointed once again)
Your bashert is someone who Hashem has handpicked for you, and they are never going to be perfect. Saying that you won’t date someone who is on anxiety medicine, presuming they are healthy and in a good place, is saying that you know better than Hashem what is good for you-a clear lack of emunah. If I didn’t marry someone based on a health concern then I wouldn’t have married my husband- but I think I am the luckiest woman on earth.
Additionally, not marrying someone out of concern that they will pass on a trait to your children is quite ridiculous. Again, this is based on an attitude that we have more control over our lives than G-d does. Plenty of perfectly healthy parents have children with ‘something’- this is out of your control.
Lastly, I understand the concern about not wanting to marry a woman because of the risks posed to pregnancy. However, tons of women face this all of the time, and with the assistance of skilled doctors, she can ease off of the medicine or take something that is safer to the baby. Plus if a women’s condition is severe enough, then basically every doctor would recommend that she stay on a medicine, as that is much much safer for the baby- so when people say they have heard of women who go off of their medicine and aren’t emotionally stable, that clearly was an avoidable situation. Every pregnancy carries some risk! Again, we are not in control of things.
Health, you missed my point, but it’s really not that important.
LU -“Health, you missed my point, but it’s really not that important.”
I did not miss your point! I didn’t agree with your point.
I’ve been married previously, and I never heard of a marriage that there was no disagreement. There’s nothing wrong with having disagreements, its what both parties do to resolve them!
I am not saying whether to marry someone who takes medication or not. However if you do decide to go out with this boy & you have to know that you can handle him even if he is off the meds & not just say you can handle him even if you have worked with people who have anxiety because working with someone, or knowing someone that has anxiety is different than living with it. I know of at least one person who got divorced because she married someone with an issue & thought she could handle it because she worked with people who had that issue & after being married to this person for less than a year she regretted it & could not deal with it & wanted divorce & got divorced.
“I’ve been married previously, and I never heard of a marriage that there was no disagreement. There’s nothing wrong with having disagreements, its what both parties do to resolve them!”
Psh…I’m impressed! However, in this case, I have to say that I think the disagreement is over what the disagreement is.
LU -“Psh…I’m impressed”
You should be! Not e/o gets married & not e/o has kids!
According to the Nosi info, every year some women will remain spinsters!
Health – uh… that wasn’t what I was impressed by.
LU -“Health – uh… that wasn’t what I was impressed by.”
OK – I’ll play your little game!
WHAT WERE YOU IMPRESSED BY?!?
It wasn’t a game; I had thought it was obvious, but I guess I was wrong. It happens sometimes.
I was impressed by the following:
1. That you responded to me politely.
2.That you realize that there is nothing wrong with having disagreements, and it’s what people do to resolve them. That is a very important concept, and one that not everyone realizes. I would assume that it is essential for marriage in particular.
“Additionally, not marrying someone out of concern that they will pass on a trait to your children is quite ridiculous. Again, this is based on an attitude that we have more control over our lives than G-d does. Plenty of perfectly healthy parents have children with ‘something’- this is out of your control (oakandfig).”
This is in Torah right? When what’s his name didn’t want to have children because he saw that his son would live according to his yetzar hara and Hashem said that it’s not his business to make such choices. He must have emuna.
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