Converting to Judaism, how do I explain to family about Xmas?

The entire Christmas is treif and cannot be celebrated or honored in any manner. Furthermore, Jesus is considered to be a rasha/evil person and cannot be considered in any favorable light.

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I have no personal experience in the mater and am not qualified to advise. But, I do feel obligated to say the following: The answer to your last question is DEFINITELY NO!!!!

The Jews have a very different view of him, and that is probably the most basic difference between Judaism and chrisianity. I think it is worthwhile for you to do some research on the topic – find a book that discusses the Orthodox view of him.

That is unrelated to your current dilemna of dealing with your family. But if you are now Jewish or wish to become Jewish (it wasn’t clear to me if you have actually converted yet or not), it is important that you understand CLEARLY the differences in beliefs between Jews and Christians. As someone who was born Jewish and does not have to confront these issues, it is not a topic that I must delve into deeply, but it seems to me that that this is a topic that is CRUCIAL for a convert to have a firm understanding of.

In terms of your dilemma with your family, all I can do is offer you my sympathy. It must be a very difficult issue to deal with and one which requires an experienced and Wise Rabbi’s guidance.

You need to speak to a Rabbi who is very experienced in these matters and who is clearly coming from a Torah perspective and is widely accepted in the Orthodox world. I wish you luck in finding the right Rabbi to guide you.

I do know that there is a Rabbi Meir Fund in New York who has a lot of experience with converts and seems to be reputable (I know someone who converted through him). Perhaps he would be a good person to speak to.

rachriv, you’re converting through an Orthodox rabbi/beis din, correct?

There is a website called simpletoremember.com that has a lot of articles and classes on the Orthodox perspective on Jesus.

I would recommend “The Real Messiah” by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan A”H. It is available for free on that website (or just google the real messiah simple to remember).

Jews for Judaism is an excellent anti-missionary organization that might be helpful in regards to explaining the Jewish attitude towards Jesus.

rachriv- sounds hard. But perhaps you could make new traditions. Such as coming over during Xmas to see your family. You could bring them chanukah cookies and presents and light the menorah if they fall on the same day.

There are many ways to show them that you love them and enjoy their company. If you shouldn’t exchange gifts than suggest a secret santa or as we call it “secret friend/pal” or give them chanuka gifts.

You can’t eat the meal or xmas cookies, so make them cookies or buy them with white and blue icing.

During other Jewish holidays invite family members to come whereever you live and teach them and show them about the wonderful traditions we have. Traditions are just something we do over and over to signify the love we have for the people we do it with every year. Show them your future sukah, arba minim, etc.

It will be hard, but I think doing some of these things can help soften the blow. Ask your Rav what are some ways you can make traditions and be with your family in honor of FAMILY and not Xmas.

Wishing you luck.

Joseph, what about hakarat tov, kiddush Hashem and avoiding chillul hashem? In fact, Rav Yaakov Ariel was asked about aveilut by the son of a gentile father and Jewish mother. The father agreed to bring him up as a Jew and even took him to Torah lessons. Rav Ariel ruled that the son should express his sorrow by doing keria and should say Kaddish as his father certainly merited a place in Olam HaBa.

benig, even if we grant your points, everyone agrees that the yushke they worship is a rasha. I assume you’re not saying otherwise.

Additionally, the Gospels isn’t factually accurate with its stories or relation of history or timeline.

One complaint by many Xtians is that many other Xtians celebrate Xmas in a non-religious way. Not our problem, just saying ….

Pretty clear that the Rasha Yeshu in the Gemara lived generations before the one whose death was used by Paul to create a new religion.

Shiffman, Eisenmann, Golb, and several others can give a Jewish perspective on the historical Yeshu. Shiffman particularly comes from a halachic/rabbinic perspective.

Historically, it seems that he was possibly from one of the many families claiming descent from David (as every single leader of Zealot and other anti-Roman groups did). (I say claiming, not that he necessarily was, but its possible). It seems from some of the sources (questionable as they may be) which were not redacted by christian scholars leading up to the Council of Nicea that there’s a lot of charismatic but also political efforts in his purported actions. The Romans certainly saw him as a political threat – that’s why they used Crucifixion, not another form of execution. And the non-rabbinic Tzedokim also saw him as a threat.

It’s hard to see a real historical figure through the shadows and curtains of Pauline christianity. There are some primary sources such as the Nag Hammadi scrolls which didn’t get censored and redacted by the church and have a less obscured perspective.

In any case he DID arrogate leadership and DID assert a messianic claim (not the only one in the era to do so) without the support of any significant Rabbinic (Perushi) leader. Like the others, he did not fulfil the criteria of a Jewish messianic leader according to the conditions described in the Neviim. This made him a failed mashiach (like Bar Kochba, for example).

I don’t know of any rabbinic or halachic sources which tell us to honour failed messianic claimants, and to “honour” the manufactured man-god that Paul created for sure not, so I’d say its a pretty clear NO to participating in christmas (Which, until the 4th century, was a pagan holiday called Natalis Invictus, the birth of the invincible sun, anyways until the church decided it would be a good way to bring in pagans by conflating their holiday with Paul’s manufactured deity).

“The details of his life as described in the Gemara are widely off that of the Gospels, such that the Yeshu of the Gemara lived nearly 100 years earlier. There is a good chance that they are not the same person and it is a mistake to attribute the activities of one to the other.”

There are (at least) a couple people that went in to the legend of J. One who lived around 100 BCE (see Sotah 47a) and one who lived around 100 CE (see Horiot 5b IIRC).

In the Gemara of Sanhedrin, last chapter, a certain non-believer asked a Rabbi about the length of Bilaam’s life. The Rabbi responded 33, and the other guy said “sounds good”. One interpretation is that the other person was asking so that he could use that number for the legend that he was about to create.

As far as as person associated with another religion, We actually know very little about him, We are not even sure he actually existed. The gospels even given conflicting accounts of his life so there is no way to know exactly what he did.

All we do know for sure is that it began to take off when someone named Saul of tarsus(Aposle Paul) took upon his mantle his story and basically formed the religion

dovrosenbaum: “In the case of Jesus, he was wicked because he was a false messiah, and he did horrible things. He cursed people, disrespected his mother, and called a Samaritan woman a dog.”

Reminds me of a certain president-elect, although as far as I know, he didn’t disrespect his mother.

LuL, Trump says he’s the only one who can keep us safe. Sounds like he thinks he’s a savior.

Hello. I wish you success on your journey. It is a very noble decision, and by all accounts one that will be difficult, but certainly worth it! I hope you always are surrounded by people who respect the incredible courage it takes to obligate yourself to all that is required of a Jew.

I highly recommend listening – don’t just read it – to this topic on the simpletoremember website, starting with the audio of Rabbi Lawrence Kelemen. I think it’s called “the real meaning of christmas” or something like that.

I hope that by the time you actually convert, your dilemma will be expressed differently:

Not, Is there a way I can celebrate the “non-religious, benign” traditions, but rather,

What should I do? I don’t want to hurt my family, but I have followed my intellect, and concluded that the Torah is the absolute Truth. How do I handle situations where my belief that there is no Truth other than the Torah, could appear to be sort of, slightly, negotiable? (either overtly, or passively)

Regardless of what secular people say, there is meaning infused in this day (even though it is a bunch of baloney, historically). It has become a celebration that claims to commemorate the birth of a movement that claims to replace the holy G-d given Torah, with a “New” arrangement. In simple terms that is heresy! It is a rebellion against what G-d said! The thought of participating should become very distasteful to you. Your intent to convert to Torah True Judaism, by definition implies that you will invest meaning into your days, one meaningful hour at a time!

Part of the challenge that you are taking on, most likely will include upsetting family dynamics. You will have to compensate by developing other occasions to celebrate your relationship with your genetic family (as guided by a G-d fearing Rabbi). Perhaps it will mean making a very big deal about birthdays. As you stated, your decision has caused a lot of pain in your family. That is because you ARE rejecting much of their approach to life, and the underlying belief system in which they function! You are choosing truths that do invalidate theirs. Apparently you understand that following Truth, and coming closer to G-d, overrides the pain that it causes your family (which is highly commendable, as expressed clearly in Megillas Rus – The book of Ruth). Your first obligation is to your own neshama – your Jewish soul.

Again, I wish you much success along your journey, and may you always be respected for this courageous life-changing choice. When your conversion is considered complete according to halacha, imagine my voice calling out a thunderous MAZEL TOV to you!

Joseph,

I am not disputing that Yushke (as described in the Gospels) is a rasha. At the very least he went against the Chachomim of the time. However there is a potential charitable view of him in which most of the rishus came from his followers after his death. They believed that Yushke claimed himself to be divine (which would be Avoda Zara) but it isn’t clear that Yushke actually did that. It was also his followers after his death that said a person no longer needed to keep the Torah. Yushke himself said the opposite. In this perspective, Yushke is just another Jew who taught and encouraged the poor and the downtrodden, who was deified after his death by his flock.

I am not saying that the Gospels are perfectly accurate but the earliest New Testament writings are written only about 20-30 years after Yushke’s death when his original disciples were still living. It doesn’t seem likely that the details could be so off.

Thinking Out Loud- Perfect!!! So well written!!

Joseph is now an expert on the Gospels as well

Taking nice sayings and misunderstanding them can be quite problematic. If your parents paid homage once a year to Adolph Hitler Y’S, would you be obligated to do so as well? The same way you have someone guiding you along your path to Orthodox Judaism, it is important you keep in touch with and consult with this person at all times so that you do not take erroneous leaps because you read something on a website.

As for the holiday celebrated on December 25th. Looking honestly and objectively at the holiday, what part could a believing Jew take part in?

Now, as to the origins of this holiday, read what some historians have to say.

Rachiv,

It is sad to read some of the insensitive replies on this thread.

You should most definitely keep up a good relationship with your family (except in some unusual situations). They are good people, too.

JC is a very very complex topic. There are mainstream opinions. There are lesser known opinions. There is also much that was made up, and much that we don’t know.

When with your family you should seek common ground. For better or worse, early Jewish xtianity promoted the Torah commandments for Jews and the 7 commandments for non-Jews. When the non-Jews took over, they seriously confused many things. But in any case, there is still a lot of common ground. The fact that xtians do not follow most commandments is still in agreement with the Jewish position that they are not commanded to.

So focus on what we agree on. There is so much. Most of the rest you can say we really don’t know all the facts. Some things you will have to respectfully differ, but with the attitude that this is right for me.

Don’t listen to anything Joseph says. Ask your Rabbi.

Second.

just make sure that you have a reliable and good one. There are a lot of Rabbis out there.