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The latest technology to fight the scourge of cellphone usage in shuls is cellphone jammers being installed in shuls. B’H it is very effective in the shuls that have already installed them. They also install a dedicated landline that can only be used to call Hatzalah and 9-1-1.
Now what happens, say, if someone misses an emergency phone call because the frequency was jammed? Is the shule then liable for damages?
And then there’s this, that I picked up off a website dedicated to electronic communications:
There was a terrorist attack in jerusalem a couple of years ago. I think 4 men were stabbed by the terrorist. It seems the shul emnployed a cell phone jamming device and people could not call for help.
Because people were running for the door, it created a log jam of people trying to get out and it took longer for help to come and the terrorist was able to inflict more damage.
so what exactly is a cell phone jammer? as soon as someone enters the shull building his phone is out of frequency & pretty much dead until he leaves?
MA
Pretty much so
They are illegal in most countries
What about people who use a siddur app? Don’t say they should use a physical book.
its rude to use cell phones at shul.
A “jammer” basically blocks (jams) the signal.
They are highly illegal and the feds have been prosecuting importers, distributors and users of jammers. They are also quite dangerous as mentioned already. People need to control themselves. Forcing people to do or not do anything, usually tends to have the opposite effect.
I’m not discounting the need for Kavod in a shul, but I don’t believe this is an acceptable way to address the issue.
its rude to use cell phones at shul.
Your opinion may or may not be true, but either way, it’s still illegal to use a jammer to block the signal.
ZD- is the info about jamming phones in the Har Nof shul reliable? it doesn’t really fit the image of that particular shul and its mispallelim. Besides, I think they were running for the exit to get away from the terrorist, not so that they could go make a phone call. Doubtful security forces could come quickly enough to prevent the massacre whether or not someone immediately called for help.
4 mispallelim were killed inside the shul, plus the druze traffic policeman who bravely responded to the attack and was killed outside the shul, and 1 more mispallel died of his wounds about a year later.
If someone is coming into the shul stabbing peple, its not rude to use it
Also unfortunatly there have been incidents in my shuls where Hatzolah needed to be called (A few doctors carry their phones 24/7)
Yes, the haf Nof Shul had cell phone jammers, it came out in several news sources
Seems like a pretty cool idea. Why is everyone against it? Don’t you at least see the pros?
“Why is everyone against it?”
There were two arguments against it brought up in this thread:
1) It’s illegal
2) It’s dangerous
3)It doesnt teach someone to not use a cell phone in shul. all they have to do is move on to another shul.
Meno I felt the reasons given weren’t enough to explain the attitude.
What I think about the reasons:
It’s illeagal: that just make it impposible to carry out. It doesn’t make it a bad idea theoretically (And does anyone what the background for this law? Why was it necessery to make it?)
Dangerous: If there is an emergency you could use the landline. Some people have big homes. Do they carry their phone with them around the house in case there is an emergency?
I just think it’s ok to have it. I’m not saying every beit kneset should have it.
apushatayid at least this way it doesn’t disturb other people by ringing loudly.
Not every shul has a landline and even if it does, it might be in a place that is not easy to get to (Like a locked door) or the doorway is blocked for some other reason ie the stabber is right in front of it
There is another issue, namely that the jammers cannot be confined to work in a specific area. The jamming signal will escape the shul and negatively affects neighbors, people walking nearby, cars on the road, first responders in the neighborhood, etc. This is why the FCC has been actively pursuing anyone using these jammers.
PLEASE don’t attempt to do illegal activities to bring kavod to the shul. When [not if], the feds arrest the people involved, the Chillul Hashem will not be worth it. We don’t need more “Hasidic Jews” or “Rabbis” in the news for doing illegal things.
Joseph, are these jammers being installed in Shuls in the us, where they are illegal, or in Israel where they are legal?
Dovrosenbaum: why shouldn’t they use a physical book? You can’t use the phone on Shabbos anyways.
They are not legal in Israel either.
And its not true you cant use the phone on shabbos, You can use it for an emergency which I have seen more than once and Hatzoloah had to be called
Me too.
So most of the comments regarding the us law aspect to the issue are moot.
“And its not true you cant use the phone on shabbos, You can use it for an emergency”
So in case of an emergency, you can open the siddur app on Shabbos?
And you’ve seen that done?
Because the poster was talking about, using the siddur app on the phone.
And as far as the phone being ossur in case of emergency, that is dependent on whether Shabbos is hutrah or hudcha.
“There was a terrorist attack in jerusalem a couple of years ago. I think 4 men were stabbed by the terrorist. It seems the shul emnployed a cell phone jamming device and people could not call for help.”
What an inane comment.
According to you, a person should not turn off his phone when going to shul to daven and should actually constantly look and check their phone, incase there may be an emergency.
That’s is patently ridiculous.
Also, then everyone should take a cell phone with them everywhere, even on Shabbos, Yom Tov, Yom Kippur.
Because the poster was talking about, using the siddur app on the phone.
One poster made such a comment, but that’s not the pint. A jammer may or may not prevent a siddur app from working, but will definitely prevent phone calls from being made.
And as far as the phone being ossur in case of emergency, that is dependent on whether Shabbos is hutrah or hudcha.
Huh? It depends whether there’s situation of pikuach nefesh. Either way, the jammers aren’t there because of Shabbos.
According to you, a person should not turn off his phone when going to shul to daven and should actually constantly look and check their phone, incase there may be an emergency.
No, according to him, the phone should be usable in an emergency.
Some people dont know the differnce between carrying a phone , turning off the ringer and checking it every 2 minuets. And no not everyone needs to carry it on shabbos, but at least 2 people in every shul (Usually doctors) should have access to one in case of an emergency. Like I said, Ive seen it happen more than once.
And Once it looked really scary. Thankfully one of the doctors was there , and was able to call Hatzolah
ZD, all you need is a landline in an accessible place. If there are no doctors on call (who may have a heter to carry a phone) it would not be muttar to carry a phone “just in case”.
/nishtdayngesheft: thank you for clarifying what I wrote. Of course I meant that you can’t use the siddur app. However, if one has a landline to use and the cell phone is off the preferred choice might be to use the landline. As to cellphones in general, I don’t take mine to shule.
In my shul, we do not have a landline and the phones are carried by the doctors.
Jammers have nothing to do with siddurs apps, they will work without internet
I think that’s irresponsible; what if one week the doctors are all away? Anyhow, the point wasn’t your shul, the point was shul with a jammer. It doesn’t have to be unsafe as long as there’s an accessible landline, as the OP said.
Yes, the siddur app was completely a side point, but as an aside on the side point, some siddur apps will insert as necessary according to the day and season, e.g. Ya’aleh V’yavo, V’sein B’rachah, and that might not work if there’s a jammer.
By your logic, there should be no lights in shul because we can’t manipulate them on Shabbos. Or I should only eat cold food during the week because on Shabbos, I can’t cook. Totally flawed logic.
What logic are you referring to?
dovrosenbaum: Why do you need a siddur app on the phone when you have printed siddurim in the shul? What does this have to with other hilchos shabbos? did you use your phone with an app for Kinnos? Are you downloading a selichos app?
Why do you need a siddur app on the phone when you have printed siddurim in the shul?
Because sometimes there are inconsiderate people that daven directly in front of the bookshelf where the siddurim are located.
Regarding dont disturb other people. If the shul with jammers was seriiously concerned with that, and they dealt with those who talk during davening in a serious manner, I would consider the argument for the use of a jammer. until then, its just another excuse.
Why do you need a siddur app on the phone when you have printed siddurim in the shul?
I used a siddur app in shul when we had a blackout.
(Yeah, I know… it was probably better that I not daven at all rather than use a lighted screen.)
The Wolf
Wolf: flashlights? Candles? Or as my shul has emergency lights that turn on when there is a blackout.
Emergency lights last only a few hours. They were useless in the Rockaways in the two weeks post-Sandy when LIPA (the utility, not the singer) messed up big time.
Wolf: flashlights?
You think my davening would be better while trying to manage a flashlight in one hand and a siddur in the other than with my Ipad siddur app?
Candles?
An even worse suggestion. I would constantly be afraid of either dropping it myself or someone else dropping one.
Or as my shul has emergency lights that turn on when there is a blackout.
That’s nice. The shul I was daveining in didn’t have one. Or were you suggesting that we delay davening that morning until we could get one installed?
The Wolf
Emergency lights is actually the law for shuls. If a shul doesnt have one, go to another one.
So people are against cell phone jammers because there might be a blackout lasting more than a few hours, but shorter than the life of of your phone battery, and you would then need to use a siddur on your phone?
I’m against cell phone jammers because they dont teach anything. Teach biur tefilla. Teach what it means to have proper kavod for hashem and his house. Jammers just mean someone moves on to a shul that doesnt have them and continues the same abhorrent practice of using their phone for improper things while in shul.
Jammers are not “no talking in shul signs”, the equivilant is “dont use your phone in shul” sign. Jammers are the equivilant of saying, we want you to do this. If you dont, we wont let you anyway. We dont care that you are bored in shul because you have no idea what yu are saying, what is going on, who you are talking to or why, we will use jammers to make sure you cant use your phone. Aleviate your boredom some other way, of course not by talking, perhaps by pulling out a sefer and learning during davening.
Now if only there were jammers for people’s mouths . . .
Emergency lights is actually the law for shuls. If a shul doesnt have one, go to another one.
Not all areas need emergency lighting, only the exit path needs to be lit. Additionally it only need to be a brightness of 1 foot-candle and only needs to run for 90 minutes.
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