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One of our daughters is engaged. We are a small family, the chasan is also from a small family. Our daughter has always wanted to be married in our home, not a catering hall or shul. We have a lovely vine covered Pergola by our pool that has been used for a chuppah previously. We can seat 85 for a sit down dinner inside or up to 200 out of doors.
Wife and daughter want to make a small intimate (family and closest friends) ceremony and luncheon at our home in CT and then throw a gala wedding feast/celebration that night in NYC for all their friends and not so close relatives.
If you were a 2nd/3rd cousin or a former classmate at Seminary/Yeshivah, etc. would you be offended if you were not invited to drive a couple of hours for a 11:30 am wedding and luncheon, but instead were invited to an in-town wedding feast that night with shmorg/sit down dinner/bar/band/speeches, etc.
My wife thinks this is horribly insulting. I think I would gladly not travel for the wedding of a not so close relative. It reminds me of my younger days 45 years ago when all the Yeshiva friends were invited to the chuppah and schmorg, but not the sit down dinner.
My vote’s with you. Ceremony invitation suffices.
If I was the chosson, I would object to having a wedding that essentially lasted 12 hours.
Popa – it’s a good thing you’re not from England. Over there, that is routine. Chuppah is in the afternoon and then everybody goes home and comes back around 3 or 4 hours later for the meal. Whole thing probably lasts 6-8 hours.
Joseph – I think you have it backwards, he’s NOT inviting for the ceremony, just the simcha.
CT – I would call it something like “Simchas Chosson V’Kallah”. Here in EY a lot of people are not invited for the meal but since there are no RSVPs over here, people just write the above phrase to indicate that there will be a bar set up (not alcohol, just a variety of food) at the time indicated and they hope that friends and distant family will come from that point forward to joint in the simcha. Nobody is insulted in the least.
If you are worried about what Popa points out, which is a chassanah of extended/tiring proportions, consider making it a 2 o’clock chuppah rather than 11 or 12, and I would order a limo for the chosson and kallah to take them to the simcha in NYC in style and perhaps if they aren’t too busy with each other, they will have a chance to rest up a bit before the big affair.
Halachically, I believe the meeting in New York is a Sheva Brachos (the luncheon is the wedding meal), so the question is about inviting someone to a gala Seva Brachos but not to the wedding.
It’s hard to judge what offends individuals, especially sensitive ones, but I think many people would be glad not to be invited especially if their relationship was distant. Curious why your wife feel it is insulting?
The old-time American weddings were like that: the chupah, followed by a reception, then a meal for close family/friends. It certainly has its advantages.
I think people are understanding the situation backwards. If I understand correctly, CTLAWYER wants to have a small Chuppah and small seudah in CT, followed by a large seudah in NY. There will therefore be many people who are invited only for the large seudah but not the Chuppah.
I think you should invite everyone to everything, but somehow (in a nice way) make it clear to them that they have the option of only coming for the large seudah. That way they will understand that you don’t expect them to make the drive, but also they won’t be insulted that they weren’t invited.
I think you’ll have less than 30% attend the chuppah & luncheon if you figure out the proper wording to invite everybody, or better yet have a family relative or even the Choson do the explaining. Basically have someone say “My ____ would love to have everybody over for the ceremony, but his house is just a bit too small. And the drive to CT is a big schlep. That’s why he suggests that only those that feel really close should come for the Chuppah”. Then leave it to each guest to determine his/her closeness.
If you can’t contact everyone verbally, maybe just put all the events in the invitation for everyone equally, but print something like “Intimate family & friends backyard Chuppah followed by homey luncheon at ______ @11:00.” You have the option of adding “Since space is limited please RSVP so we can accommodate all our guests comfortably” and mark the return cards accordingly.
If you get swamped by positive Chuppah responses and money seems to be no issue, rent a tent so your backyard can accommodate everyone despite possible inclement weather.
And btw every wedding also has Sheva Brochos, but the reverse is not true…
I remember how impressed I was the first time I received an invitation from friends offering me a choice of attending the tisch and the chuppah or the chuppah and the meal. It not only made sense controlling the astonishing cost of a wedding celebration, but it also afforded the recipient a guilt-free way to manage one’s time.
Perhaps I would have felt differently were close relatives involved, but for me at least, some of these affairs seem to go on and on beyond my patience to stay (not to mention my bed time).
As a not-close family or friend I would not be offended at all. Now, if I thought I was close and it turns out the feeling isn’t mutual, then maybe I would be offended. Isn’t that where the sticky situations tend to arise?
You are absolutely correct! Why shlep for so many hours to be at the chupah – Your daughter can wear her gown at the party, and you can have her and your son in law make a BIG ENTRANCE once everyone is there.
Wife and daughter want to make a small intimate (family and closest friends) ceremony …
My wife thinks this is horribly insulting.
Which side is your wife on?
Mazel tov to CTLAWYER and family.
I’ve never been to an American wedding. But in Europe it is standard to only come to the dinner in the evening. Chuppas and the reception following them are in the afternoon, when people are at work, and generally only attended by siblings and very close family and friends. In the evening, the dinner will take place in a hall (sometimes many miles away in big cities like London) and Chosson and Kallah arrive to a big entrance like ‘Shtusim’ was suggesting.
In light of that, I would be glad not to have to drive out of town and can’t understand why someone wouldn’t be.
Slightly digressing, but can someone define or describe a ‘shmorg’ for those of us who have never had the pleasure of attending one.
CTL, I would not be offended in the least, but I don’t get offended easily so you can’t solve this from my opinion. You probably were hoping to do some sort of calculation based on the large number of replies you’d get from your fellow coffee room members, but for the most part they’ve ignored your post. My sympathies… I’ve been at the receiving end similarly. I liked Mammele’s suggestion a lot and am not sure why you remain fixated on two separate invitations. Letting the guests decide saves you from your wife getting upset at the possibility of offending someone. And do you really think some third cousin twice removed will drive all the way out to attend the Chuppah?
geordie6, the shmorg that CTL described is usually set up here in the US, for the guests to enjoy before the badeken. It can be very elaborate, featuring a vast array of hot and cold dishes and the requisite sushi, or simpler, with just some fruit and cake so the guests don’t starve (Jews are always very careful not to get too hungry) before the festivities begin.
Hi CT LAWYER. If your interested, and lots of people get insulted, please let me know and I will gladly come to partake in your evening dinner. I can think of many people from my Shul here in Monsey that will also gladly come to help you fill up the hall. Just let me know.
CTLAWYER, You are truly lucky to have a close extended family, ka”h. Let us know what you decide, and whatever happens, May you and your family enjoy the simcha in good health, and have lots of nachas from the young couple and your other children.
Mazel Tov.
It is permissible to make a chasunah for your daughter, and fully participate, even while in aveilus for your mother z”l. Your siblings may not be able to fully participate, but in my opinion, it is more important to not delay the marriage.
Also, if it’s still within the year, I don’t think you gain anything.
Regardless of how long it takes to plan, I think shorter engagements are better, even if it means less fancy gowns and such.
It’s funny that you say that you didn’t want the next generation going into your profession. I think everyone says it about their profession. 🙂
I find a mention of anonymity from you amusing,
CTLAWYER (not that I know who you are yet).
How much longer do you think it’ll take you, Comlink, to determine it?
Oh. Then you’re actually one of the few people who don’t have a problem with their kids going into the same profession. 🙂
It’s much more tax efficient to let them into the business.
“The men just need to change to a fresh white shirt”
For the record, if I were attending both, I would probably not change my shirt
But I don’t think you were invited, hence this thread.
CTL,
According to my calculations, this wedding is soon. When exactly?
My experience has usually been the opposite. The chuppah IS the wedding. What you are talking about is clearly Sheva Brachos. The kallah is going to wear her wedding gown all day???? Nothing terrible about your plans, but I personally would feel bad to be on the B-List. A second/third cousin or old Senibary classmate, with whom you have little or no contact, does NOT have to be invited if there is no real relationship shaychus to the chosson and kallah. But friends and family members who are close, should be at both, if at all possible.
Lawyer, mazel tov! the best bubby ever (and I won’t get insulted either) asked a valid question, so I’ll join the yenta committee here. The kallah will be in her gown from morning until late at night???
Popa was invited?
On one of those weeks I actually am going to a wedding. I bet I’m related to CT lawyer.
Let’s make a sign so we can recognize each other. At exactly every 30 and 00 on the clock, I’ll stuff one finger up each of my nostrils as far as I can reach. Please be on the lookout.
What will your sign be?
I think you just got uninvited.
Mazel Tov, CT! The untereste shura (bottom line) is that it’s your money, your daughter’s simcha, your plan is just fine and some people are gonna be offended no matter what you do.
Yeah, for example, I’m offended that he invited popa and not me.
If the offended ask, you can say they eloped 🙂
Mazel Tov, no one should be offended that you and your daughter want a small intimate ceremony.
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