- This topic has 31 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 9 years ago by .
-
Posts
-
Why can’t we restart the minhag of duchaning every day in chutz laaretz. Why can’t we and have circumstances changed and why on Yom tov do we only Duchan at Muscat and not at shacharit as well and on Yom Kippur shacharit and Neila as well.
Ask your local nonorthodox maharat.
Muscat?
My son wanted to start to daven vasikin, but the closest minyan was a sefardi minyan where they duchaned every day. My son asked our Rav what he (a Kohen)should do. Our Rav said that it is a legitimate minhag for the sefardim to duchan in chutz le’aretz, but not for Ashkenazim. Our Rav mentioned that there were times in Europe when some Ashkenazi rebbonim wanted to change the minhag in their town to do as you suggest and duchan every day, and in each instant the decision was supposedly followed by a calamity. Our Rav suggested that my son could daven there but that since he was an ashkenazi he should walk out and not duchan, especially because this was going to be an every day occurrence and not just a one time situation. The inference I guess is that if he just went to daven there once or twice then he may have allowed him to duchan during the week.
And what if your son is the only Kohen in the minyan that day?
hakohen53 said:
Our Rav suggested that my son could daven there but that since he was an ashkenazi he should walk out and not duchan, especially because this was going to be an every day occurrence and not just a one time situation.
A while ago I asked my Rav who quotes a teshuva of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach said that it’s OK for a Ashkenazi cohen to duchen at a Sephardi minyan. I did not ask about daily vs. occasionally.
OP asked:
“Why can’t we restart the minhag of duchaning every day in chutz laaretz. “
There are reasons mentioned in the poskim, like simcha and the need for mikve. I find those a bit forced. When I have pressed a Rebbe in yeshiva and also the Rosh Kollel from my home town, they both said (at different times) that really there is not a conclusive reason. We just have Emunat Chachamim.
“Ask your local nonorthodox maharat”
All the ones I have ever met are orthodox.
“All the ones I have ever met are orthodox.”
DO you ever wonder why certain sattements ar oxymoronic?
You would say that someone certified by a non orthodox as a cleric by a non orthodox institute can be called orthodox?
edited
Is someone certified as a hair stylist by a non-orthodox automatically not orthodox?
Rama (o.c. 128:45) says we don’t duchan in chu”l every day because simcha is a precondition for duchaningm and we are only truly b’simcha on yom tov. Also, there’s a story somewhere that the Gra tried to reinstitute birkas kohanim and then the shul burned down, so he stopped it.
RY23, it depends on if they use unorthodox hair styling techniques.
My emunas chachamim includes believing that the reasons they give are conclusive.
No one really understands how the reasons are sufficient but we can’t change the Minhag.
I have met several Maharats. Some are Orthodox. Some aren’t. I would trust the Kashrus of all of the ones I’ve met, though. (Some of the ones who have published stuff online I definitely wouldn’t trust their Kashrus, though.)
Minhag HaGra is to duchan every day. The Gra wanted to make that the minahg of his bet midrash but a fire broke out and he announced that he ddi not have the support of Heaven. Same when Rav Chaim Volozhiner decided to change the minhag. Howeevr, Rav Yisrael Salanter said that if he had agreed withthe Gra he woulkd have changed it fire or no fire. Rav Yaakov Kaminetzky said that RYS thought that the fire had been set by fanatics and neither the Gra or RCV wanted to make a fight of it. RYS did not care.
In any case, I do not understand why an Ashkenazi cannot duchan in a Sephardi shul as that is the minhag hamakom, especially if he davens there every day (see Iggerot Moshe Orach Chaim 3:5). Of course, he can make aliya as the standard Ashkenazi minhag in EY (except in the Galil and Haifa) is like the Gra.
Not duchening every day is a penalty you pay for not living in E”Y. Tell your son to make aliyah, and his problem will be solved.
No one really understands how the reasons are sufficient but we can’t change the Minhag.
Just because something is done multiple times doesn’t necessarily make it a Minhag. If you were to consistently leave weddings before Sheva Brachos, it still wouldn’t be a Minhag.
Likewise, consistently Davening Mincha close to sunset won’t create a Minhag not to say Tachnun.
Went to a Sefardic Minyan this Shabat. Birkat Kohanim at Shacharit and Mussaf.
The rama (128:44) says birkas kohanim is only said my mussaf on yom tov because the simchah is greater then, before everyone heads for the s’udah.
The rama says birkas kohanim is said by n’ilah and brings differing customs regarding shach’ris. (The reason it was stopped by n’ilah is probably because it usually extends until after sh’kiah.)
Scared, actually he says that there is no simcha in Chul except on Yom Tov.
At the “Open Orthodox” shul I attend we even say birkat kohanim at Musaf, not Shacharit, on Simchat Torah. The Rema would be pleased. 😉
“At the “Open Orthodox” shul I attend we even say birkat kohanim at Musaf, not Shacharit, on Simchat Torah. The Rema would be pleased. ;)”
And that includes the baptist ministers who join in.
Don’t kid yourself, there is nothing they do at HIR that the Rema would approve of.
I dont think we can say about anybodies actions that the Rema would be pleased or not. We have no hasaga of who the Rema was.
“And that includes the baptist ministers who join in.”
Nope. No Baptist ministers in sight.
especially if he davens there every day
If he davens there daily it is more problematic because he could be establishing a personal minhag to duchen daily.
Avi K, the rama doesn’t mention chu”l there and I don’t know why it’s relevant anyway.
“the rama doesn’t mention chu”l there and I don’t know why it’s relevant anyway”
The difference of chu”l is understood by many as to why Birkat Cohanim is not said daily.
MDG,
Avi K, the rama doesn’t mention chu”l there and I don’t know why it’s relevant anyway.
The difference of chu”l is understood by many as to why Birkat Cohanim is not said daily.
that addresses neither of the two points I made
“that addresses neither of the two points I made “
Let me rephrase. Even though the Rama makes no mention of Chu”l, many understand his comment implies an answer (to the glaring question) as to why no birkat cohanim in chu”l.
MDG: At the Rema’s time, an Ashkenazi community in E”Y (had such a thing existed) also would not have Duchaned daily. Any Chiluk between CHU”L and E”Y is post facto explanation for something that obviously has a much simpler one.
“At the Rema’s time, an Ashkenazi community in E”Y (had such a thing existed) also would not have Duchaned daily.”
That’s because “minhag avoteinu”; whatever they did in Europe, they continued to do in E”Y. The reason why most Ashkenazim duchan daily in E”Y is because most of the founders of the Askenazi yishuvim were tamidei haGR”A. As pointed out above, in Haifa and in the Galil, they don’t duchan daily – not talmidai haGRA.
In any event, I interpret the implicit question of why don’t Ashkenazim duchan daily as saying what caused them to stop. Clearly the practice in E”Y was more often than just Y”T (see
Sotah 38b towards the top and Rashi 'Liperakim' - 10 lines down). The Rama addresses the question, but his reasoning is not based on what happened in his time, but rather on what caused them to stop centuries before. Many read into his reasoning to include the difference of chu”l was part of the reason.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.