Borchu after Ma'ariv

This minhag is common to Sefardim and Ashkenazim in EY. In America, as is well known, Ashkenazim do not have this minhag. While the gabbai may have overreacted, the guest yachid hamispallel has no right to do any public action in shul without the gabbai’s express permission. I would have spoken to the fellow after shul and explained this to him, but I still support the gabbai here. The guilty party here is the mispallel and not the gabbai.

One more note: The authentic Askenazi minhag is not to say barchu. In EY, the Ashkenazim picked it up from the Sefardim.

In Baltimore Rabbi Heinemann has a sign up against this Borchu practice at the Agudah. A smart person would think to ask before proclaiming the Borchu.

In myshul they had a similar maysa.

A guy was saying kaddish and someone yelled ” don’t answer, it’s not our minhag”

If this is Shittah Gra why don’t they say it in Chaim Berlin? We have a procedure for a late comers to say Barchu and that is to clop first. I think this tells they olam something unusual is about to happen. The Sefardi barchu as made as if it is part of davening.

The clop gives me a heads up a barchu is coming. When these extra barchus are said I an not prepared for them and will not answer since I can’t respond immediately.

This minhag should not have creeped into Ascanaz minyonim in Erez Yisroel since it isn’t our minhag. But, since it is there I assume I has to be answered to. There are those who are trying to foist the Sefardi Minhag on Askanaz shuls. They have total disregard for out minhagim. Those who say it have no respect for halacha since the halacha says minhag is in a makom. I don’t think these people can be trusted for other halacha issues if they can violate this.

We do have a minhag for a late comer to say barchu and this young man had a right to that minhag. If that was the case he should have told the gabbai when he finished davening.

There is another issue the sefardim are insisting on in our shuls. When they say kadish yasim they say their version. Which is very wrong. Again they do not respect minhag hamokom.

Frumguy

1) that it no way changes the fact that he was “mevayesh a fellow yid b’rabim” As oldman says the gabai may have been right but that still sounds pretty embarassing

2) You really cant hink of another way other than the one you describe?

Shooting him is a bit drastic. Throw him in the dungeon.

The authentic Askenazi minhag is not to say barchu.

Are you referring to automatically saying barchu after every maariv, even if no one missed the first barchu – or are you referring to someone saying a makeup barchu only when someone missed the first barchu?

In EY, the Ashkenazim picked it up from the Sefardim.

Which Ashkenazim? Outside of EY Ashkenazim do it differently than in EY?

To Sam , Joseph (shtei neshimos) and others

Some clarifying points to my previous post:

1. I did not find anywhere that saying barchu at the end of ma’ariv is minhag ha’Gra.If I missed something, I’ll be happy to be corrected.

2. I am well aware of Tukochinsky’s luach. Although minhag yerushalayim, and by extension in many cases, minhag eretz yisrael is minhag haGra, this is not always the case. The luach is minhag haprushim (albeit talmidei Ha’Gra), but as expected, their minhagim were influenced here and there by the minhag hamakom, which was sefaradi before the prushim showed up.

3. The sefaradim always say borchu at the end, shacharis and arvis. It seems that this was to help out the latecomers and became a lo ploog. The prushim accepted this with the logical proviso that in cases where there are no latecomers, it should not be said. As Shmoolik correctly pointed out, this would be on Monday and Thursday morning (borchu in leining for the latecomers)and Leil Shabbat (plenty of time , even for the latecomers). Following this logic, borchu is not said arvis after Ne’ilah Yom Kippur because everyone is in shul already, and Tukochinsky specifically includes this quirk in the luach.

5. Although this is controversial, there are those who say that historically, yiru eineinu was instituted to help out the latecomers come for tefillah b”tzibur. Since the Gaon eliminated this Ashkenazic practice, it is unlikely that he was concerned with latecomers, at least according to this explanation.

Finally, in defense of gabbaim. Gabbaim contend constantly with uber chachomim who walk into a shul where they are nonpaying guests, yet feel that their personal spiritual needs supersede the tzibbur and minhag hamakom. They need to be taught. It’s usually best to teach privately and b’nachat, but in terms of getting the message across, sometimes the harsh method brings results, and the private-talk method does not. Many of these fellows then go on to argue with the gabbai that the minhag hamakom is wrong and needs to be changed on the spot. These people do not get any sympathy from the gabbai, nor do they deserve any.

limaysa he was mevayesh a guy berabim.

Is it so terrible to do it once?

There are sources indicating that doing it once does not

cause a person to lose their cheilek in Olam Habo.

Mashiach Agent:

So if he came 2 minutes late because he was busy posting in the Coffee Room, it would be different?

I wasn’t actually making a joke.

If the policy of the shul is not to do it, the circumstances of each individual case shouldn’t be relevant. Even if you were saving someone’s life, if you missed borchu, you missed it.