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BS”D
I just read an op-ed by Yehuda Weissmandl, president of the East Ramapo School board, and was finding myself nodding in agreement.
It seems that East Ramapo is stuck in the same situation that Lakewood found itself in last year. The funding formula from the state (which doesn’t consider private schools) does not work when there is a super-majority contingent of private school children. With the exponential increase of children in the district (BH), the problems will just continue to get worse. The taxpayers are not willing to vote for increases to pay for busing of private school children, of which the cost continues to increase every year.
To that end, I am surprised that the board would not welcome a fiscal monitor. A fiscal monitor would place all of the board’s decisions above-board (pun intended). Then, when the problem continues to not be solved (as the taxpayers will continue to vote against increases, and the capped increases will be insufficient to pay for the additional private school busing), the state will be forced to recognize that it is not the makeup of the board that is the problem, rather their own formula (supported by the teachers union for certain) that does not recognize the need for funding private school mandates.
Thoughts?
The problem as I see it the law requires certain Free Education requirements that all municipalities pay, However most of the people in East Ramapo are against public school , while they cannot eliminate it, they can reduce it as much as they can (and then some) and hope those people just leave.
Just because the Charedim are the majority, doesnt mean the minority doesnt have rights and those rights must be taken care of
The proposed fiscal monitor is given the legal authority to overrule the duly democratically elected board. And the monitor will take away from private school children elective bus service and private placement of special ed children. The board is authorized under the law to elect to provide those optional services. But the monitor can (and will) take them away.
As a former elected School Board Member, it is my understanding that the government can appoint a Monitor or supersede an elected Board if there is corruption, mismanagement or the District is in fiscal distress.
Unions will always oppose any funding for private schools because it takes fund away from them.
Funding for transportation and special needs programs are and should be made available to every child irrespective of the school they attend.
On the other hand, direct funding to private schools is a serious mistake because public money always comes with strings attached in ways that Frum schools can never adhere.
ZD,
It is clear that you are completely unaware of the facts.
“Against public schools and try to eliminate it”? Where do you eve get this from?
Even the hateful so calls Ctivists, such as the ??? Ari Hart, makes no such claim. And his rant are full of lies and inaccuracies.
The real picture is that the state funding formula is highly flawed because there are mandated services (That means required by law) that the district must provide to all students, those in public AND in non-public schools and the formula only accounts for those in public schools.
There is also a cap, by state law, to the amount that school taxes can be raised each year. After paying for mandated services, such as busing and special education, the remaining budget does not allow for unlimited Extra Curicular programs and certain capital expenditures must be delayed as well.
If you read the “Activists” rhetoric (and they are activists like the Aryan Brotherhood are activists) you would see that they want no services at all to go to children who are on non-public schools. Not busing and not special education. This is all on their web sites. They use the budget shortfall for the district as an opportunity for to express their thinly veiled hate of the Orthodox Jews. And the overwhelming majority of the activists are not even from the district. Even Meryl Tisch, she would rather write an op-ed full of gross inaccuracies rather than own up that her agency has completely messed up the funding formula.
But you somehow managed to make a more egregious claim than even these so called activists. It must be because you really are clueless about the facts and situation.
Gavra, why don’t you take it a step further? According to you, that the frum community has nothing to worry about because the services it wants are legally mandated, why don’t the frum board members just resign and let Oscar Cohen, Betty Carmand, and Ari Hart approved candidates take over?
Art Music and Athletics are not extras, they are very important to the community unfortunatly the frum community downplays these things , but it doesnt mean the other communties . In fact there is a state requirement for Art and music in the curriculum.
If you are going to get on the School board its your responsility to take care of everyone and that might mean paying for things you dont like or agree. Certainly there is a certain kind of “education” generally taught in public schools not generally taught by yeshivas, but it is very important for teens especially ones with raging hormones.
The issue isnt bussing, its seperate busing which costs extra because many times the same buses have to do almost the same route at least twice one for the boys and one for the girls.
As far as special ed, generally those students are usually just educated in public schools, however in Ramapo they are usually bused to Kiryat Joel (The frum ones) and The cost is about double what it would cost to educate them in the regular public schools (Not saying frum kids should go to public schools, but sending them to Kiryat Joel is very expensive)
GAW,
The board has said time and again that they have no issue with monitoring, they are under significant monitoring already. The OSC monitors all school districts and that is besides having an outside audit form come in and audit their books each. (The firm that audits the ERSCD is well known and regarded in the field. They are not like the LI firms that had an issue years back. They had even said they could deal with a monitor who “MONITORS”, but a monitor that can at will do as he/she pleases and who was not selected by the voters in the district is unacceptable and unconscionable. There is no prescribed action and/or analysis and documentation that the monitor would have to do to veto or make their own decision. It is in effect a dictatorship. And I am sure that any issues with the monitors decisions would be place at the feet of the board and the monitor would have no accountability.
And you are being utterly disingenuous if you were to say you do understand why that would be so.
ZD: Are you comparing the cost of KJ special Ed to the cost of East Ramapo reg. public school or to special Ed in a public school setting? Huge difference.
Gavra, likely, neither side will consider the “monitor” objective.
Besides, though I’m not going to pretend to know what all of the issues/taynas are, let’s take ZD’s issues (although a couple seem a bit far fetched) as an example. One community considers separate busing and special ed in KJ to be necessities, and art and music to be extras. The other says the opposite. Who’s right? It’s subjective. Who gets to decide? We live in a democracy, and an independent monitor might just serve to take the ability to decide out of the hands of those who should have it, namely, the voters, whose money it happens to be.
GAW,
The Agudah’s point is that they should do the right thing, not what is easier.
Such an excuse itself proves that the monitor is inappropriate.
I am sure the Board of ERCSD would not be allowed to use a reason for doing something.
I am not sure why ZD’s last comment remains, while a response showing his suppositions to be entirely incorrect was not posted.
?
zahavasdad,
The issue isnt bussing, its seperate busing which costs extra because many times the same buses have to do almost the same route at least twice one for the boys and one for the girls.
I would imagine that the impacts of separate busing could be mostly ameliorated by combining grades/schools on routes.
ZD,
“The issue isnt bussing, its seperate busing which costs extra because many times the same buses have to do almost the same route at least twice one for the boys and one for the girls.”
A convenient lie by the “activists”.
You probably are aware that there are separate schools for boys and girls. Thus, how would one route serve both boys and girls, that have to be at separate schools at the same time. Schools that are not in the same are at all.
What about the busing that is paid for public school students that go to school outside the district?
“Art Music and Athletics are not extras, they are very important to the community unfortunatly the frum community downplays these things , but it doesnt mean the other communties . In fact there is a state requirement for Art and music in the curriculum.”
There were specific items that NYSED instructed ERCSD to cut from their budget to balance the budget, specific “Extra-Curricular” items. Do you know what extra-curricular means?
“As far as special ed, generally those students are usually just educated in public schools, however in Ramapo they are usually bused to Kiryat Joel (The frum ones) and The cost is about double what it would cost to educate them in the regular public schools”
This is wholly untrue. In fact one of special ed schools that does receive funding and is a frequent target of the “activists” (as defined earlier) costs the ERCSD SIGINICANTLY less per student than what the costs of providing those services in the public school system itself costs. Significantly.
And there is a lot of money paid to other districts for East Ramapo residents that attend schools in different districts, including out of state that are for regular public school students (this is all in the public financial statements). There is no reason why paying the public school district in KJ would be any different.
You really are completely unaware of reality. You are completely way off base.
People who live in East Ramapo and send their kids to public school have an equal right to demand what they think they deserve. Just like the charedim want seperate buses, they want Art and Music.
Its funny how someone demands AP Calculus is an “activist” and someone who demands Busing to yeshiva is no and BTW NYC does NOT provide busing for most students in the city so its not mandatory.
Most Public schools have extra curricular activies its not an “extra item”
ZD,
“People who live in East Ramapo and send their kids to public school have an equal right to demand what they think they deserve. Just like the charedim want seperate buses, they want Art and Music.”
As clearly explained above, and understood by other posters here, the issue is not separate busing. It is busing period. And it is an issue as to what is mandated, that means required by law, versus what is not mandated.
“Its funny how someone demands AP Calculus is an “activist” and someone who demands Busing to yeshiva is no” (sic)
The position of the activists, as clearly demonstrated is not AP calculus for the students. Because they have no children in the schools and do not even live in East Ramapo. Their activism is purely to deny services to the orthodox children. Read their rhetoric. And no one is running about demanding busing, it is provided because it is mandated by law. Remember, dina dimalchusa. Which is hardly funny.
“BTW NYC does NOT provide busing for most students in the city so its not mandatory.”
Fantastic argument, however it is completely wrong. The law is that busing is mandated for all students in NYS except for large cities, which I believe means over 100,000 students, which then define their own busing eligibility. (From what I’ve been told by those who deal with these items, it only applies to NYC and Buffalo) Not one of the activists is denying that the busing is mandated, they want to change that and take away these services.
“Most Public schools have extra curricular activies its not an “extra item” “(sic)
BY definition, it is not part of the regular required curriculum. They may be fantastic and everyone would want to provide the program, but if there is no money, the first to go are the non mandated items. NYS Dept. of Education itself told ERCSD to cut extra curricular programs because of budget shortfalls. Even you say “Most” if it is a requirement, why wouldn’t all have the programs?
NDG, you’re great!
ZD: you actually crack me up. On one thread you bemoan poor KJ women who have to walk on hilly terrain to go shopping cause they can’t drive (which of course they don’t have to walk, as I mentioned) while in this one you claim kids don’t need to be bused (legally, which is untrue as NDG mentioned, but also illogical because of the long distances for most kids to get to school) in a somewhat more suburban community than KJ…
the sad truth that you all don’t want to hear or know is that if those communities (and others) had a reputation for honest business dealings and honest use of public funds, there probably wouldn’t be half the opposition. Feel free to deny it but coming from the outside of those places, I hear what the “haters” have to say and it is a huge, if not primary factor. By NO means is this behavior from the majority of us, but when it happens, it hits the news, and represents us all. We need to be diligent in following halacha or we pay the price for everyone’s mistakes.
With great power comes great responsibility
ZD: What’s THAT supposed to mean?
ZD – exactly right
The haters who aren’t Jewish say the Jews are dishonest blood suckers taking their money. The Jewish haters who aren’t Orthodox say it is the Orthodox who are dishonest. While the haters who are Orthodox say it is the Ultra-Orthodox and Hasidim who are dishonest.
and i say your post is what people in denial say when they want the boogey man to go away
Syag,
Thanks for demonstrating Joseph’s point.
ZD,
You direct your comment to the Monitor, if one is ultimately appointed. He is the one who will have no accountability and can do as pleases.
I am sure he will find your cliche enlightening.
The guy whose kids AP calculus class was cancelled , Their band was cancelled and the basketball team was cancelled and therefore has no extra curricular activity and will likely have great difficulty getting into an Ivy League school, goes down to the school board to complain and is told he is an Anti-Semitic .
You need extra-curricular activity to get into many top universities
nisht – oh haha! and thank you for proving mine! Which group did you arbitrarily place me in based on my stand on this subject? That’s exactly what I meant by denial. It can’t be true, so you must be modern orthodox. Or maybe “REGULAR” orthodox. But you surely aren’t one of us!
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