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Which came first the chicken or the egg?
No, just open a Chumash.
The chicken
It’s never heresy to ask a question.
Is it heresy to believe that asking “Which came first the chicken or the egg” is heresy?
A circle has no end and no beginning.
@ Letakein Girl Don’t forget Hashem created that circle.
LG:
Good HP reference!
a circle has no beginning (just wondering if that “apt analogy” was yours or you got it from HP) but that has nothing to do w/ a chicken (or phoenix) and an egg. a chicken and egg is a straight line. The question is where the line started.
I don’t understand what it means that a circle has no beginning, anyway. Why not?
There’s this cartoon of two chickens by a nest with eggs. They are talking.
Caption: “What I really want to know is, ‘Which came first – hardware or software?'”
🙂
In a way, Hashem is that circle. No end and no beginning- eternal.
My gosh, this thread just went from funny to deep. Sorry about that! 🙂
check out the maharil diskin on bereishis. rashi three times comments on the words in the passuk- nefesh chaya- and he learns that the egg came first.
I think the answer is that a circle has no beginning
I could be wrong, but this is how I understood the response: Every circle, of course, starts at one point – but not inherently. It happens to have started at one point by pure coincidence, and continued round. Once it has come full circle and is continuing, the starting point is no more than a historical fact. The question of “What came first, the Chicken or the Egg” isn’t just a trivia question of fact. It is a question about the essence of a Chicken/Egg; which is the ?? and which is the ??. The same is true in any causality chain where A causes B which causes A which causes B. Wherever it started plays no role and has no significance.
Sam2
The Even-Keeled and Erudite Shmuely Wollenberger from Las Vegas
“It’s never heresy to ask a question.”
what about the mishnah in chagiga “anyone that is “mistakeil” (not sure how to transalate it, always thought is was saying asks) in 4 things shouldn’t have come into this world, whats above the world, what’s below the world, what was before the world, and what’s after the world.
ca: Still not Kfirah. Just not proper. Or really bad. But not heretical.
1. how do you know
2. so what about a rasha (one of the 4 sons) he was asking a question, however in the question he takes himself out of the klal and he is a kafar b’ikur
ca: The question wasn’t Kfirah. The question merely indicated his heretical beliefs.
So what is kefirah, Sam?
thats like saying no statement at all (not just questions) is heretical it just shows his belief or no action is bad it s just indicative of himself
LK: Definitive statements that violate Ikkarei Emunah. Questions, by definition, cannot violate Ikkarei Emunah because they are not actual beliefs. Refusing to accept answers can be Kfirah though.
CA: No non-definitive statement is heretical.
Eggs are laid by chickens who hatched from eggs. We know that animals were created, but in what form?
sam2,
i hear your reasoning but how do you know this?
Well a question can be assuming a definitive heretical viewpoint.
Hardware came first. Software can only exist on hardware.
Lav davka. Hardware needs internal software to run. So the software can first be created followed by the necessary hardware to run it.
Where is the software before you create the hardware, Joseph?
In code.
I’m not sure if that’s a good answer, but never mind,
I’d forgotten about the old methods.
HaLeivi: Yes, but then the question isn’t Kfirah, the assumption is.
Was this not what ??? ????? and ????? discused?
yekke2, what?
I was equating the Hardware/Software discussion with Moshe & Betzalels difference of opinion regarding building the Mishkan first or the Keilim.
Never mind.
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