Sam2 and R' Aharon Lichtenstein

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  • February 26, 2015 10:24 pm at 10:24 pm #614984
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    In a certain thread a while back, Sam2 alleged that t is well-accepted by many in the Chareidi world that no one has a greater Iyun in all of Rishonim than R’ Aharon Lichtenstein.

    He was subsequently challenged:

    I have never ever in the last 30 years heard anyone make the claim that you have made. Can you quote someone who has written or said so? (I just spent about a half hour on line trying to find some words of praise about him from the Chareidi world and found nothing. Not trying to discredit him, G-d Forbid, just trying to see if you know something that I don’t.)

    I have found a source for something similar to what Sam2 was alleging:

    In a shiur, R’ Aaron Rakeffet said:

    I know (from? of?) students of mine who studied in Ponevezh; they told me there’s no one in Ponevezh that comes to R’ Aharon’s bekius (in? of?) Shas and Rishonim.

    (The shiur was given 14 years ago.)

    February 27, 2015 2:42 am at 2:42 am #1061812
    Joseph
    Participant

    R’ Aaron Rakeffet is modern orthodox. All you are citing are anonymous students of his, so that must be digested with a large grain of salt. And even if you accept it with the salt, as they are students of Rabbi Rakeffet the students are modern orthodox themselves (even if they had at a previous time learnt in Ponevezh.)

    So the original challenge remains unrefuted.

    February 27, 2015 3:16 am at 3:16 am #1061813
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Apparently, I forgot how to properly blockquote.

    The original post should be:

    In a certain thread a while back, Sam2 alleged that t is well-accepted by many in the Chareidi world that no one has a greater Iyun in all of Rishonim than R’ Aharon Lichtenstein.

    He was subsequently challenged:

    I have never ever in the last 30 years heard anyone make the claim that you have made. Can you quote someone who has written or said so? (I just spent about a half hour on line trying to find some words of praise about him from the Chareidi world and found nothing. Not trying to discredit him, G-d Forbid, just trying to see if you know something that I don’t.)

    I have found a source for something similar to what Sam2 was alleging:

    In a shiur, R’ Aaron Rakeffet said:

    I know (from? of?) students of mine who studied in Ponevezh; they told me there’s no one in Ponevezh that comes to R’ Aharon’s bekius (in? of?) Shas and Rishonim.

    (The shiur was given 14 years ago.)

    February 27, 2015 3:22 am at 3:22 am #1061814
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Lior:

    And I am anonymously reporting that R’ Rakeffet said it. So tha’ts another grain. And in Sam2’s response to the challenge (which I didn’t quote) he named three people from whom he heard the claim. So that is Sam2 anonymously reporting something. Add another grain. I was not attempting to definitively prove the claim to be true. I was lending it support by adding a source that is completely separate from Sam2’s sources, saying a very similar claim. I actually would have specified the shiur in which R’ Rakeffet said it, but I have a feeling that people will be distracted by the rest of the shiur.

    February 27, 2015 3:29 am at 3:29 am #1061815
    Joseph
    Participant

    I love being distracted. Which shiur was it?

    Forget my point about the anonymity and salt, I demonstrated why your input doesn’t address the challenge since you are citing modern orthodox, not chareidi, folks.

    February 27, 2015 4:49 am at 4:49 am #1061816
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    You might love being distracted but I fear that the topic of the shiur will spark an entirely different debate.

    The reason why I think that my source has some validity is that there are not to many people who have intimate knowledge of the levels of Talmudic prowess of the great Rabbis on different sides of the ideological spectrum. People who were talmidim in Ponevezh and in YU’s Gruss Kollel are in a somewhat unique position.

    February 27, 2015 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #1061817
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    Does it matter if nobody is greater? The fact remains that R’ Lichtenstein shlita is a HUGE gadol.

    He was a talmud of R’ Hutner zt”l as well as R’ Soloveitchik zt”l, both of whom were from the gedolei hador. He is a well-known Rosh Yeshiva. Does it matter if he’s the best, or “just” in the top 10 or top 20? Either way, he knows more than ANYONE who posts here in the CR, and is worthy of respect.

    February 27, 2015 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #1061818
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    The comment that Sam2 was originally responding to was:

    As far as R’ Aharon Lichtenstein, he is a very nice man, but his arguments are based on feelings, not logic… Rav *******, R. ******, Rav ****, and R. Lichtenstein may all be fine Talmidi Chachamim, but they are no where near being Gedolim. Anyone who believes so certainly has never had a relationship with a Gadol.

    Someone was saying that R’ Lichtenstein is not a gadol. Sam2 was trying to show that he is a gadol – he has the greatest iyun in Rishonm. So whether this claim can be supported will determine (according to some) whether R’ Lichtenstein is a gadol.

    February 27, 2015 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #1061819
    Joseph
    Participant

    Why is there an assumption that every ideological group has gedolim of their own?

    March 1, 2015 12:20 am at 12:20 am #1061820
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Where do you see such an assumption?

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