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It seems that there are folks who believe it can’t. Mohelim agree to be tested and use mouthwash. It seems that they concede that it CAN.
See article and comments:
It absolutely CAN.
HSV1 and HSV2 are transmitted through direct contact of bodily fluids (mouth to open surgical wound).
The thought that there is no possibility of transmission of the virus while performing MBP is completely unfounded and downright wrong.
edited
The discussion is not when a Mohel (or any person for that matter)has an active case of HSV 1 (Cold sores. All Mohelim know that they should not perform MbP then. And they don’t.
However, there are those who insist that it can shed even when not active, which for some reason has not been proven. Which is strange, because 80% of people have inactive HSV1, so it should be simple to check and prove. The fact that it hasn’t says a lot.
In addition, no is sure that a parent who has active HSV 1 is careful enough to make sure that they do not spread it to a new born child.
Disregard Goofus’ comment about HSV 2. that is not the issue with Mohelim.
Edited. Such comments will not be tolerated.
Kissing a baby can also transmit herpes. Should that be banned to?
Nisht, there has been enough ‘crossover’ in recent years that HSV types 1 and 2 are no longer specific to one area of the body i.e. HSV-2 can cause oral lesions. There are also numerous studies demonstrating transmission of HSV even before the prodromal phase.
sorry, no links
Nisht,
I only mention HSV2 for the sake of completeness. A good way to remember the difference is that HSV 1 typcally shows up in the upper half of the body and HSV2 shows up in the lower half, although this is not set in stone as crossovers have been known to happen.
Lior,
What should be banned is the transmission of diseases to children when preventable. Yes, kissing should be banned when the child’s health is at risk. You wouldn’t kiss an infant if you had the flu (I hope).
So propose legislation to that effect. Call it the 2015 Banning Kissing Babies Whilst Ill Act. Ill Parents won’t kiss and ill mohels wont do mbp.
Lior:
There’s no need for legislating something that most parents try to do anyway.
The fact is the more people that touch the baby, the more chance there is in spreading an infection. Is there a law that anybody who touches a baby, including health personnel have to sign a wavier?
fny: Parents also kiss their babies.
Lior: Parents aren’t a real problem as long as the child is breast-fed because the mother gives the kid immunity to almost anything she has with the milk.
Most people dont touch babies in certain areas and that is what people are concerned about.
zd: False. The concern is viruses on an open wound. That’s it.
Lior, how often do you kiss a baby on the mouth?
“It would seem that fewer than 80% of mbp parents having hsv is a reasonable assumption.”
Why is this a reasonable assumption? We are talking about cold sores here, not an STD.
ZD,
You said “Most people dont touch babies in certain areas and that is what people are concerned about.”
I am not sure what you are referring to, however responsible parents do clean their children when changing the diapers. That would result in some touching of those areas while cleaning the baby. Most parents do not wear sterile gloves when changing diapers.
Sam,
You said “Parents aren’t a real problem as long as the child is breast-fed because the mother gives the kid immunity to almost anything she has with the milk.”
1) Many Mothers do not nurse.
2) No fathers nurse.
3) Nursing is actually one of the common causes of transmitting HSV to newborns. Probably the most common.
DocYael,
“Nisht, there has been enough ‘crossover’ in recent years that HSV types 1 and 2 are no longer specific to one area of the body”
Regardless of whether HSV can cause oral lesions, HSV 1 is really the concern that everyone is concerned with because it is the common cold sore and is very common.
It is highly unlikely that a Mohel has HSV 2. Such claims are generally offered by the rabid anti-milah crowd who like to portray MbP as a “filthy” act by associating it with HSV 2 and the connotations associated thereto.
In case you think I making this up, Just today I saw a commenter (somewhere else) make such accusations, and lo and behold on his web page he was proudly displaying swastikas.
I am not sayong everyone who is against MbP is a Nazi, but those who cast MbP in a light of “abuse” (using loshon nekiyah) are without doubt rabid anti-semites.
nisht: Almost every disease that a father has antibodies for the mother does because married couples essentially share all germs eventually.
And the Frum people who are anti-MBP are never doing so out of any “inappropriate” connotation. That is an old anti-semitic canard dating back centuries. The Frum people against it have that opinion out of health concerns, nothing else.
For all the innocent CR readers, ALL Herpes Viruses are now able to be transferred from any part of the body, for reasons which are not appropriate for discussion. We cannot be careless about this. At least one baby has died following his bris. Perhaps there are more, but one is one too many. There was no question, from what I read about this tragedy, that the mohel had active lesions at his mouth. Would any responsible parent want to take the chance of having ANY mohel with a history of cold sores, do MBP on a newborn? Get another mohel.
I will not argue the Halacha here. There are heterim for using the pipette, and many mohelim now do so. But if someone adamantly wants to follow the tradition of the MBP, then EVERY precaution must be taken, and a back up plan must be in place if there is anything questionable about the mohel’s oral health.
As i’m sure Sam can back me up on, Rav Schachter has publicly stated that MBP should not be done, and a sterile tube should be used instead.
There are Mohels that will try to asertain what the families feelings are will do the Bris accordingly.
FNY
Really?? Do you know the difference between the 2 viruses?
ZD,
I have never heard of ANY mohel doing MbP against parents’ wishes. Perhaps a Gumco, though.
But none of that relates in anyway to the topic being discussed.
Sam,
I never said that’s the reason Frum people don’t do MbP. I was very clear about that. But I was also making clear that those that insist that it is “inappropriate” are hateful anti Semites. And they are thwe ones who intentionally conflate HSV 1 with HSV 2. Because of the connotation
FNY.
Thanks for proving my point.
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