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I have a service dog which I need to bring to services with me. Just for some background, this service dog was traded for another dog I used to have.
They are telling me that I cannot bring my services dog because it is a mechir kelev. Are they correct?
Well, if they charge $1200 in dues, I sure hope they have services for your dog, so that you and your wife can daven with proper concentration.
Some shuls do allow it, but its actually the law that someone can bring them to shul (ADA)
As long as you don’t offer it as a korban on the bimah you should be ok.
Service dogs are not property.
“They are telling me that I cannot bring my services dog because it is a mechir kelev.”
Get another shul or sue them under the ADA. In secular court.
sue them under the ADA.
Religious facilities are not subject to the provisions in the ADA (especially if they believe it to violate their religious practice.)
In secular court.
It’s forbidden to use secular courts (especially without a heter arkaos.)
I am not 100% which Rov it was, but I think it was either Rav Pam or Rav Dovid Cohen. He was asked the Shaalah of service dogs and he asked if they were allowed in other houses of worship and he was told they were. He allowed them.
Get another shul or sue them under the ADA. In secular court.
lol, a trollish response to a trollish thread.
ZD,
This line is not true.
“he asked if they were allowed in other houses of worship”
Doe this apply to a tzelem as well? Because they are allowed in other houses of worship and HIR, and I doubt either Rav Pam or Rav D Cohen would say they are allowed in a shul because they are allowed in other houses of worship.
That IS NOT the reason that service animals are allowed in shul.
Yes I have seen them in shuls. Charedi shuls. In shuls not owned by the Rov and in shtiblech as well.
The Rav asked because He did not want to Shuls to seem unwelcoming to the disabled and other places were welcoming to the disabled and he probablt knew about the ADA as well and wanted to know if those places were obeying the ADA law
It was Rav Moshe who allowed guide dogs in Shul
popa – you are hilarious!
Is it Kelev Yisroel?
On a somewhat more serious note, why would any Rabbi even try to ban a blind mispallel from coming inside a shul with his service dog? There is surely no halachic issue, (other than the humorous ones proposed by Rav Popa) and these dogs sit quieter and behave better than many mispallelim.
I never heard one talk during davening, or get a phone call.
I know someone that has one, and I davened at the same Mincha minyan with him many times. One time the dog was quietly hiding under the table, and someone carelessly pushed a chair in on the opposite side of the table, and hit the dog with the chair legs. The dog jumped and looked very unhappy, and for a moment I thought he would attack the Shor Hanogach. But he never made a sound, and his owner held him back by the handle (or whatever it is called) and he calmed down quickly.
I think most people think you meant dogs for the blind so the trolling failed here
“The Rav asked because He did not want to Shuls to seem unwelcoming to the disabled and other places were welcoming to the disabled and he probablt knew about the ADA as well and wanted to know if those places were obeying the ADA law”
You really have to stop making up reasons and ascribing them too rabbonim and poskim.
I admit ignorance here. The joke was funny even for the normal definition of Service Dog, adding the nuance of the ‘exchange for another dog’ and the dual/triple meaning of ‘service’.
People may have misunderstood the question as to if any regular service dog can come to services, but I don’t know of any other meaning than the official definition – A service dog is a type of assistance dog specifically trained to help people who have disabilities including visual difficulties, hearing impairments, mental illness, seizures, diabetes, autism, and more.
I think we are all better off if you DON’T explain what you think he meant.
BTW – I believe that a Guide dog is the same or maybe just a subset of the general term ‘Service dog’. “Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. Examples of such work or tasks include guiding people who are blind”
Popa – it might matter if you promised to bring ‘this dog’ to service, or just said ‘I promise to go with a dog.’ Or did you promise to bring the previous one, and then said ‘this one should be instead of that one’?
In case you want to send him to services without you, I saw a minivan in Manhattan with a sign on the side that said “Canine Car – Taxi for Dogs”. I took a picture.
When you were little, did they call you Puppy?
Thats quite a coordinated dog you have there. How did you train it to perform the services?
make sure it wipes its feet!!
I’m surprised at you popa. Since when do you consider the type of shul which insists on equality to be “‘??? ?”?
Also, “esnan mezonos”? Even I would have a hard time coming up with such a groan inducing pun.
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