- This topic has 8 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 11 months ago by apushatayid.
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December 16, 2014 10:31 am at 10:31 am #614475TheGoqParticipant
Recently in my inbox there was an email from a very worthy Tzedakah who i have supported in the past the subject line on the email said Re: your auction order, I know i had not yet made an auction order so i clicked on it to see what was up and the email said why have you not made your auction order yet?? there is still time! to me this is sheker I understand they want to raise as much money as possible and i know how worthy a cause they are but this to me is like a teaser and in its essence very misleading and it has caused me to lose respect for the organization.
December 16, 2014 2:18 pm at 2:18 pm #1048089kapustaParticipantThat crossed my mind too, but I didn’t make much of it because (and I know no one will like this) in effect, they are emailing about your order. The order may not take place altogether, but they’re emailing you about an auction order so…
Maybe I should stick to less controversial things…
December 16, 2014 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #1048090☕️coffee addictParticipantwell, isnt it true?
theyre emailing you about you orderiing for an auction
December 16, 2014 4:38 pm at 4:38 pm #1048091catch yourselfParticipantOf course, as CA and kapusta point out, it is factually correct.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this.
If, on the other hand, the body of the email would have included language aimed at giving the false impression that some sort of commitment had already been made, that would be outright deception. This has happened to me, in emails, regular mailings and phone solicitations.
Tzedaka organizations, take heed: We will not support this kind of trickery, no matter how worthy the cause.
To quote Rav Shamshon Rephael Hirsch (and many others), “In Judaism, the ends does NOT justify the means.”
December 16, 2014 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #1048093Patur Aval AssurParticipant“In Judaism, the ends does NOT justify the means.”
??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ????
December 16, 2014 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #1048094catch yourselfParticipantPAA –
As I’m sure you know, that ???? is a ????? ???? which is limited to certain circumstances. [Although the view of the ??”? ????”? is not accepted ?????, it is an instructive example as to the limitations of this rule].
In general, the ????’s viewpoint is that ???? ???? ?????? ?????, ???? ??? ???? ??? and ??????? ?? ?????.
December 16, 2014 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #1048095Patur Aval AssurParticipantcatch yourself:
I didn’t say that the ends always justify the means. But they sometimes do. See for example the ???? ??? on the Rambam in Hilchos Sefer Torah 10:11 where he says:
???? ??”? ????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ??”? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ?”?
He is saying that the ends (saving the Sefer Torah from being taken by the non-Jew with all that will come from that) justifies the means
(????? ????). He is saying this misevara and he’s using the sevara to argue with the Bach. He also adds there:
?????? ?????? ?????? ????? ??? ?????
which is also the ends justifying the means.
December 17, 2014 1:22 pm at 1:22 pm #1048096☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant“Es la’asos laShem, heifeiru Torasecha.”
How is that darshened?
“Vachai bahem.”
Almost all means are justified by that end.
I’d assume what was meant is that in Judaism,
the end doesn’t always justify the means,
not that it never does.
December 18, 2014 8:03 pm at 8:03 pm #1048097apushatayidParticipant“Vachai bahem.”
Almost all means are justified by that end.”
Perhaps the gemaras discussion of “hutra” or “dechuya” is relevent here. If “hutra” there is no end to justify as the means is 100% permissible.
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