- This topic has 7 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 10 years ago by .
-
Posts
-
Recently, there have been several threads discussing the proper reaction to various tragedies. I couldn’t decide which of those threads to put this in, so I’m starting a new thread.
Igros Moshe Orach Chaim 6:42:
???? ???????? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ????
??? ????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???”? ????? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ???”? ??????? ??? ??????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ????? ??? ?”? ??????? ???? ?????? ???’ ????? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ????????? ?”? ???? ?? ?? ??????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ??”? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ??????
???? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ????????? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??? ??? ???”? ????? ???? ???? ????? ?? ?? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ???? ???????? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???”? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ????? ???????? ???? ???? ???? ???”? ?? ??????? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ????? ?????? ???”? ??? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ?? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ???”?
??? ?? ?????? ??????? (?:) ???? ???? ?????????? ????? ?? ????? ????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ?? ?? ??? ????? ???’ ??? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ?? ??????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ???”? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?????”? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ???”? ?? ??????? ?? ?? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ??????? ????? ? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ???”? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ????? (??:) ?????? ????? ???? ????? ?”? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ?”? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ?????
???? ???????? ????? ?”? ?”? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?”? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ?’ ????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ?’ ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ???”? ?????? ??? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??’ ??? ?? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?’ ????? ???? ??? ????????? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ??”? ??????? ???? ?’ ????? ??? ??? ?’ ??? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?’ ????? ???? ??? ???? ???????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ????????? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ?? ?’ ????? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ?”? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ???”? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ?”? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ???? ??????? ?????? ???’ ????? (?.) ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??? ???”? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???????? ????”? ???? ??? ????”? ??”? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ???”? ???? ?????? ?”? ???? ?? ?”? ????? ?’ ????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ?’ ????? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ??’ ????? ??? ?????? ????”? ???? ??? ???? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??????? ??? ?’ ????? ??? ?????
??? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?? ??????? ???? ???????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????? ????? ???”? ?????? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ??”? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ?? ????????? ??? ?? ???????? ?? ?? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ????
???”? ???? ????
??? ?????????
It would take a great deal of conceit to state agreement with the position of Reb Moshe ZT”L. He doesn’t need my haskomoh. I do wish to call attention to the message. He refrained from citing anything specific as the cause. he only highlighted that the tragedy occurring to those who were diligent in following mitzvos is the call to action for us to increase our diligence in mitzvos. That is general, exactly as it should be. Had Reb Moshe given some specific guidance of what and where to improve, it would also have been welcome. What is a glaring omission is the citing of a cause for the tragedy. That is just as it should be. Reb Moshe was unwilling to make statements about HKB”H’s calculations for how He runs the world and why He makes things happen. That is in contrast to the types of statements that appeared in other threads in which people assumed the role as Hashem’s spokesperson, and proceeded to divulge Divine secrets. These cheshbonos are secret because they are meant to be.
I can accept that a Talmid Chochom, such as Reb Moshe was, could possess Ruach Hakodesh, and could be privy to HKBH’s master plan beyond what is accessible to us mortals. But that neither gives him the authority to divulge this, nor does it mean that he possesses it whenever he wants. My understanding is that Reb Moshe said as much as needs to be said when tragedy occurs. We need to learn from him, and better ourselves in whatever ways we need. If we have a rebbi who can guide us in our Avodas Hashem, we may be on the way to pursuing the madraigos that comprise our potential.
But the frivolous statements that have dotted cyberspace and our heimishe media are irresponsible.
Reb Moshe was unwilling to make statements about HKB”H’s calculations for how He runs the world and why He makes things happen… I can accept that a Talmid Chochom, such as Reb Moshe was, could possess Ruach Hakodesh, and could be privy to HKBH’s master plan beyond what is accessible to us mortals. But that neither gives him the authority to divulge this…
Reb Moshe, for his reasons, may have chosen not to attribute specific tragedies to specific causes. Other Geodlei Yisroel zt’l have indeed made such specific attributions. Each of these Gedolim had their own cheshbonos in deciding whether or not and what to attribute it to. And the Gedolim who have, in fact, attributed tragedies to specific causes are far wiser and more steeped in Torah and the ways of Hashem than any of us here to dare challenge them.
the answer to the thread of non-stop tragedies throughout the entire world is simple.
we all need to do TESHUVA together as a nation-on all levels from frum to reform etc…-with its entirety of fasting, teshuva & kinnus etc…
like in the days of purim when they finally woke up & did teshuva & stopped going to achashveirosh party like Mordechai told them. Well TODAY we are all still going to achashveirosh (Obama’s) party
Even comments that states in general to do Teshuva, without mentioning anything specific, also get yelled at.
Yelled at by the Letzonei Hador.
OH.. So he’s back on again…
Moreinu v’Rabbeinu, HaRav HaGoan HaTzaddik Hamuflag, Hanistor (obviously, we’re ALL anonymous here) HaRav Reb XX, XX
So you’re the one we must report to when we’re dry and ready to do Teshuva “..Let me know if YOU are ready to do teshuva..”. You also got the message straight from Above “…which could have been totally avoided…”
OK, so you’re the messenger direct from Heaven with these harsh words of Mussar. And I’m writing to you in the name of k’lal Yisroel (they ALL chose me, at an emergency convention, a little froggie!! none could do a better job). Will repeat (hey- you also repeat) what I wrote before. WE KNOW THAT. WE KNOW WHAT TRAGEDIES MEAN. NO NEED TO COME RANTING IN AT THE AFTERMATH OF A MISFORTUNE IN THE NAME OF HASHEM TO SPEW YOUR WORDS OF MUSSAR. WE ALL KNOW THE RAMBAM. Yes, we Yidden are all connected, we ALL share the pain of another, whether here, there or anywhere. And I have a niggling feeling that ones of the caliber of R’ Moshe ztza”l who WERE able to pinpoint a fault to be corrected, would not blog anonymously to drive a point.
No – he didn’t rant and froth and tell people “let me know when you’re ready to do Teshuva”
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.