Home › Forums › Bais Medrash › The Worst Midda
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September 7, 2014 3:07 am at 3:07 am #613604Patur Aval AssurParticipant
???? ?????? ???? ?? ?? ??? ?????… ??? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?????
(????? ?????? ??? ?????)
??????? ?????? ??????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??????
(??)
?????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??????
(??)
???? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ????
(?? ??? ?????)
So which one is actually the worst? Or does it mean that they are each the worst in a different way?
September 7, 2014 3:16 am at 3:16 am #1031492☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantI think they are all forms of or result from ????.
September 7, 2014 3:31 am at 3:31 am #1031493R.T.Participant??? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ????.
September 7, 2014 3:45 am at 3:45 am #1031494Patur Aval AssurParticipantDaasYochid:
Back in my youth I once asked this to a Rabbi (though I only mentioned the first and third quotes) and he suggested that ???? is a form of ????. But it doesn’t really answer the question because which of the three forms of ???? is the worst? Lichora it’s not just saying that each of these is the worst BECAUSE it is a form of ???? because it doesn’t say that about anything else in ??? ?????. Also, once we’re saying that these things are all a form/result of ????, we can pretty much say that about every midda.
September 7, 2014 5:48 am at 5:48 am #1031495☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant?????? ?????? is in fact saying that it comes from ????.
He seems to say (you suggested this) that they’re bad in different ways, and that the badness of ???? is the resulting ??????.
September 7, 2014 11:24 am at 11:24 am #1031496☕️coffee addictParticipantsorry for my ignorance in mussar but how are middos bad, its like a tool just like you could use a hammer to bang a nail or brake a skull so too you could use tayvah to do aveiros to have a tayvah for mitzvos?
September 7, 2014 2:18 pm at 2:18 pm #1031497Patur Aval AssurParticipantcoffee addict:
Every midda can be used for good and bad. That’s why in every sha’ar the Orchos Tzadikim explains both the good aspects and bad aspects of the midda. That being said, the bad of certain middos can be worse than the bad of other middos and the good of certain middos can be better than the good of other middos.
DaasYochid:
If you say that there bad in different ways then you don’t have to say that they all stem from/are a form of ???? (although clearly the first three are). This was indeed my original suggestion, but I would like someone to explain in what way Ahava is the worst and in what way Mispaer b’chachmaso sheain bo is the worst etc.
September 7, 2014 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #1031498thechoiceismineMemberA hypothesis:
??????? ?????? ??????? ???? ?? , ??? ?????, ?????, ???? ????? ???? ????? ????- I believe all the middos you mention are all different sides to the same coin – living in an illusory reality. It’s the opposite of truth, which is good, so I think it may be self explanatory why these middos i.e. living an illusion are the worst. It’s the farthest away from the truth.
Gaavah – self explanatory. Having gaavah means living in the illusion of “Koch v’otzem yadi”
Taavah – living with the false assumption that what you want is THE most important, you’ll stop at nothing to get it. Forgetting that Hashem is the One that should determine your wants, and that other peoples feelings should come into consideration.
False Gaavah – Building a false reality where you are the best at everything. (Can’t do teshuva in that case, because what’s there to do teshuvah for? I’m wonderful.)
Loving bad – that’s also creating a false reality, seeing bad as good and good as bad.
I used second person just because it was easier. I ‘m not talking to anyone specific.
I have no idea if I am right or wrong, and I did not check the context of your quotes. This is just a hypothesis.
P.S. If you’ve ever met a person who has Narcissistic Personality Disorder you can see clearly how all these middos tend to exist together.
September 8, 2014 1:00 am at 1:00 am #1031499Patur Aval AssurParticipantthechoiceismine:
You might be right. But I feel like you could say that about pretty much any midda.
September 8, 2014 10:01 am at 10:01 am #1031500thethinkingjewParticipantwhilst you are on the subject of the good and the bad of middos can anyone please explain where the good is in the middah of kaas – anger?
September 8, 2014 2:46 pm at 2:46 pm #1031501Francorachel3ParticipantAnger is the most destructive and a killer of relationships if not worked on and controlled every day.
September 8, 2014 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #1031502👑RebYidd23ParticipantBut anger can be useful because it’s powerful. It just has to be aimed correctly. Not at people.
September 8, 2014 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #1031503Patur Aval AssurParticipant?? ?? ?? ????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ???????? ??????? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ??? ?? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ??? ?? ?? ???? ???? ???
(Orchos Tzadikim Sha’ar Haka’as)
Bear in mind that you can accomplish these goals merely by displaying anger without actually being angry.
September 8, 2014 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #1031504👑RebYidd23ParticipantBut if anger wouldn’t exist, it would be incomprehensible.
September 8, 2014 8:56 pm at 8:56 pm #1031505R.T.ParticipantWe see from the above discussions that all these “Middos” could be used for good if channeled properly and only if the person is the right “vessel”.
Wouldn’t a person be “angry” if Kavod Shamayim was being compromised? For example, if someone was G-d forbid desecrating Kisvei Kodesh?
Wouldn’t a person feel a “Ta’avah” for serving HaShem or for doing Mitzvos?
Even a Talmud Chochom needs some small amount of “Ga’avah” (I’ve seen 1/8 and 1/64 in some sources).
September 8, 2014 9:28 pm at 9:28 pm #1031506👑RebYidd23ParticipantBut there are different subtypes of each. Some of those are entirely bad.
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