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Rav Shmuel Wosner shlita stated in his Shabbos SHuvah drasaha in 5772, ” it is clear to me that if Klal Yisroel would accept upon themselves not to speak during davening, or at least from Hodu until after Kaddish Tiskabel (and also during Mincha and Maariv, from the beginning of the tefillah until after Kaadish Tiskabel), then the terrible gezeirah of the machalah (cancer) would be eradicated from all of Klal Yisroel.
Unfortunately, we all know someone fighting cancer. These words are powerful! PLEASE Control yourself from speaking during davening and iyH in that zchus the cholim in Klal Yisroel should have a complete refuah!!!!!!
TOGETHER, LETS START A TREND OF KEEPING QUIET DURING DAVENING!!!
L’Refuah Sheleima for Miriam Gitcha bas Yetsha
Bimchilas K’vodo to R’ Wosner, who is far above any criticism I can ever give, statements like this (especially specific statements) end up hurting people who it affects. There are ways to encourage not talking during Davening without making promises like this. Because, unless R’ Wosner is saying that he had a Nevua guaranteeing this (which I would believe if he claimed), how can he say this with absolute certainty?
Sam, this was not a very specific statement. If it was said about a particular individual, you might have a point, because we can never know when a particular gezeirah is sealed. (Although at times, HKB’H might reveal something specific to a tzaddik, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility.)
It is certainly not beyond R’ Vosner, though, to be able to make the connection between a certain type of puroniyus and a certain aveirah.
Several weeks ago, I listened to a shiur on cd from R’ Yitzchak Sorotzkin shlita on Kedushas Beis Haknesses and not speaking during davening. He said over several stories about this. One story was about an individual who’s daughter had cancer, lo aleinu. The doctors had told him that there was no hope for his daughter. A little while later, the man met another Yid and this yid told him that he had a similar problem and he went to a rebbe and the rebbe told him to be mekabel not to talk during davening. He said after several weeks of taking on the kabbala he went back to the doctor and there was no trace of the sickness left. This man heard the story and he took on to be mekabel not to talk during davening and his daughter was healed.
No, we don’t know why things in this world happen. But we can take on extra zechuyos and those zechuyos can fight for us.
We should stop talking during davening not because we will benefit but because it is the halachah. 🙁
You are correct, Charlie, but let’s face it; sometimes we can use the extra push.
someone once came to HARAV HAGON Avigdor Miller zt’l and asked for a bracha because he had cancer, rav miller asked him :do people talk in your shul? he said yes, rav avigdor miller sais strongly YOU MUST GET OUT OF THAT SHUL YOUR TEFILOS ARE GETTING BLOCKED!the man switched to a small stieble were they didnt talk and 2 weeks later he came to the doctor and the doctor said: its amazing the cancer left your body completely its like you never had it! so do we need more proof the gedoli hatorah are telling us this over and over again! the noda be yehuda said if you talk in shul its like planting a cross in the hechal!
Frankly, the fact that we assume that talking in Shul caused Tach V’tat should do a ton more than any of these stories about cancer.
But I say three times a day that if we will follow it will rain on time and we’ll have what to eat and share and that we’ll be long on the land. In fact, I have this on my door posts and placed on my heart and between the eyes.
do you not realize how foolish this sounds?
Just as the rabbonim attributed the cause of tach v’tat to talking in shul and told us to refrain from that in the future so that we should prevent a recurrence, so to here they can tell us the cause of a tragedy so that we should refrain from repeating that mistake.
There was a story a few months ago that Rav Chaim said anyone owning an iPhone could not be an Eid. Many have commented on this “psak” and the consensous seemed to be that the statement was misunderstood. It was likely the asker did not properly either ask or understand the answer.
It is likely the same happend here as well along with the fact we dont have any evidence this was actually said other than an anonymous poster on the internet, but even if it was said, who is to say it was made to a specific person or the general population as well.
Just curious. These are anecdotes, not proof. There are talkers in my shul who don’t have cancer in their families. That it isn’t proof either.
You don’t want to wish harm on any Jew.
And one may never know the ways of the Ribono Shel Olam. One who talks creates a barrier to the Tefillos, for himself and others. Why he’s is not immediately punished is Hashem’s cheshbonos. He is forgiving and very patient to allow for repentance, but, no doubt, there is a Judge and Judgement.
Additionally, as Ohr HaChaim points out, one who sins and causes another Jew to bear his punishment, as in this case, will be dealt with EXTREMELY SEVERELY. To quote:??? ???? ?? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ??????.
Ohr HaChaim Hakodesh
Hakadosh.
the point was not the spelling but to not say ohr hachaim without hakadosh
The Mishnah Brurah says that talking during chazaras hashatz causes shuls to be destroyed. I don’t know where it’s brought down about diseases being caused by it, but the story from R’ Miller does make sense. If there is talking in the shul, the tefillos won’t be as good. Tefillos from a tzibbur are amplified by the tzibbur. If there is talking, it makes sense that the opposite might occur.
What bothers me is our morbid fascination with cancer. Cardiovascular disease disables and kills far more people than cancer does. Why doesn’t anyone ever offer a segula to eliminate cardiovascular disease?
Redleg- Cancer patients look scary. Cardiac patients usually don’t.
hanz: What’s wrong with saying Or HaChaim without adding HaKadosh?
Talking in shul during davening is assur. Whether these stories about avoiding/curing cancer are true or not, obviously I don’t know, but I wouldn’t be surprised. What would it hurt to take on something that might/could/will help? We should all be trying to better ourselves.
It’s a machlokes. ‘Cuz a rebbe said a few months ago that makeup on young girls is what causes cancer. Must be two different cancers.
So, which is more likely to result in the end of cancer for Jews: Scientific research, or a day when all Jews stop talking during davening. Even if Rav Wosner is right, a scientific solution will be found before every Jew stops yakking during davening.
Nfgo3, the two are not mutually exclusive.
We should stop talking during davening, and iy”H in that zechus, a cure will be found.
NFG, that was the problem Chizkiyahu Hamelech was faced with.
Talking in shul during davening is assur. Whether these stories about avoiding/curing cancer are true or not, obviously I don’t know, but I wouldn’t be surprised. What would it hurt to take on something that might/could/will help? We should all be trying to better ourselves.
This is worth repeating.
(1) It is absolutely Ossur to talk in Shul. (2) Rav Wosner may say what he wants as Posek Hador – in Shomayim they listen to him – so should we. (3) Every “kabola” a person takes on himself brings good to that person – even if we do not necessarily see it.
I would add that the Gerrer Rebbe, the Bais Yisroel zt”l, said publicly right before the begining of the 1967 war – that “Hashem yilochem lochem v’atem tacharishun” means that Hashem will fight your battles if only you would not talk during davening.
Another interesting point to consider (not negating not talking in Shul) is that the Pnei Menachem of Ger zt”l said that the “machla” is caused by people not “fargining” others. It is similar to the “machla” in which the white cells “eat up” the red cells. Just additional food for thought. Let’s “fargin” other Yidden. The z’chus of “ayin tova” is enormous.
Besurois toivos and refuous for all cholei Yisroel.
1) It is absolutely Ossur to talk in Shul. (2) Rav Wosner may say what he wants as Posek Hador – in Shomayim they listen to him – so should we
Rav Wosner issued the Psak at the Asifa banning the internet
DaasYochid; Thanks
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