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Many people make a big deal about the kezayis(kezaisim) of matza at the seder. There are special charts to measure with, and very often the most stringent measurements of kezayis and kedaiy achilas pras are encouraged. So how come no one ever makes a deal out of this on Succos if the gezeiras shava of tes vav tes vav equates the chiyuv of Pesach and Succos?
Theres another stira like that by matzah.some chevra are super makpid to only eat hand matzah because of the ‘lishmo’ daiga but they buy machine made tzitzis? tzitzis and matzah have exactly the same din of lishmo!
For most mitsvos it is easy to exceed a shiur, which makes the shiur largely irrelevant. For example, one is required to eat a kazais of hallah in the sukkah but unless you have some serious medical problem, that’s no big deal. Eating a kazais of matsa and marror can be a problem except for those of us who love to eat dry crackers and hot horse raddish, in which case the seder cuisine is quite unchallenging.
Akuperma: There’s a separate issue that you might not be Yotzei at all with horse radish. Just eat lettuce.
And there’s another issue that we might be using the lettuce wrong, so just use horseradish.
HaLeiVi: Who says there’s an issue with using lettuce wrong? How could that be?
im makpid
PAA,
Lo shomanu is not a rayeh. I always remember being careful to eat the first kezayis in a the succah kday achilas pras, without hefsek.
As Akuperma said, it is because it is more difficult to eat a kezayis of matzo, and it is harder to gauge the shiur, that you hear more about it.
There may be other issues with the matza machine, like the rolled-out dough traveling through warm areas before reaching the over, which may hasten the process of chimutz. Also, I’ve never seen either type of machine–is it possible that a tzitzis tying machine has a greater role for the operator than the matza machine?
About the difficulty in eating a kezayis of matza vs challah–remember that on seder night we eat four kezaysim.
I don’t get your question. Every meal you ever eat you should be machmir for the largest kezayis and shortest kidei achila, otherwise you risk s bracha livatala by benching. Safeik brochos lihakeil. Esp if you assume we’re more machmir by the seder bc of the bracha beforehand.
And mr. patur, why don’t you ask if you’re even yotzei at all with horseradish. look in the poskim (even the mishna berura) its very questionable. if u want a good chumra that’s the place to start
Every meal you ever eat you should be machmir for the largest kezayis and shortest kidei achila,
that’s backwards, kdai achilas pras is based on the size of the kzayis
Bar Shattya’s back!
that’s backwards, kdai achilas pras is based on the size of the kzayis
It also has to do with how fast people eat, so I don’t know that it’s entirely backwards.
Rabbi patur, is there any mekor for your “inyan” in any accepted halacha sefer. I’m sure you can find many such ideas in chassidish and machshava seforim but if that’s the way you pasken shailas…
also even if you’re correct that there’s such an accepted inyan I think it’s clear that the motivations behind the pesach kezayis don’t stem from this.
you cannot say smthng halichically absurd and when proven wrong just say its a limud zechut. lo zu haderech.
Before you eat lettuce you need to make sure it is bug free. You are oiver many Doraisos when you eat even a small tiny little bug.
Chaimy: Most bugs found on lettuce are only 1 D’oraisa. And Chazal knew about bugs when they told us to eat lettuce.
Sam2: you are aware that there were big poskim who at horseradish,right?
If you want to follow a YU version of a chumra, go ahead and listen to Sam. I don’t think even any YUniks believe that though, it was just something said over in a shiur. Some people need to say things just to have their own knaitch. If you are from any other walk off life, just go ahead and ignore what he says.
“Only 1 Deoraisa”. Do you mean as opposed to something serious?
And since I won’t be here to respond when Sam complains that my comment somehow denigrates R. Schachter (whom I doubt he has ever met), let me add the following: Why isn’t R. Schachter here promoting the retirement of horseradish from the marror universe?
squeaker, yu and rabbi Schechter have nothing to do with this. many many mainstream poskim (inc the mishna berura) are extremely hesitant to allow horseradish for maror. rav nisin Kaplan has an entire shiur online where he says even if you eat horseradish together with lettuce you might not be yotzei bc mitzvos mivatel zu es zu
please, don’t make this into yet another political issue. have the humility to admit that you don’t know the subject or at least refrain from commenting on something until you see the mekoros
and esp don’t tell ppl reading what they should or shouldn’t be doing halichically if you’re not qualified. and that’s not a chumra:????? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ????? (Shulchan Aruch Yoreh Deah 242:13)
And also squeaker, it doesn’t help to go after ppl u don’t agree with personally. if u have something logical to say then share, if not stay silent. hit and run unlearned comments add nothing to the discussion. one of the problems with anonymous comments.
sir patur maybe you’re a rabbi doctor
squeak: It meant as opposed to his comment that there were several. I wasn’t saying better or worse; just correcting his inaccuracy.
” Every meal you ever eat you should be machmir for the largest kezayis and shortest kidei achila, otherwise you risk s bracha livatala by benching.”
That might well make you a glutton. See Ramban to the parshat Kedoshim, which we will be reading the Shabat after Pesach.
As many have pointed out, there is no “meikel” or “machmir” regarding shiurim. A machmir shiur in one area creates kulot in other areas. And anyone who takes all the chumrot is a fool — at least according to Chazal.
Samuel, squeaker’s comment does not deserve a response from you. He’s just trying to start a political debate with you. Let his unlearned comment serve as its own refutation.
I don’t understand how one can say one is not yotzei Maror with horseradish when the gemara says tamcha is good and the Shulchan Aruch codifies it and the Mishna Brurah writes that if lettuce is hard to clean than certainly one should use horseradish.Furthermore the Mishna Brurah writes that if one is sick or sensitive they can pick any one they choose.I understand that chazeres is preferred,but to say one is not yotzei?!
And I know the machlokes if it is good or not,or even if tamcha in gemara is horseradish.My point is it has been established by many poskim as being good.There is certainly those to rely on.This is a very old machlokes just like many other halachos.
just subtract 4319
The problem mentioned earlier is eating the horseradish and lettuce together(as many ppl do) which is even assuming horseradish is valid maror gets involved in being mitztaref 2 diff minim of maror together which acc to many rishonim and poskim (inc rashi and ran) is only yotzei bidi’avad and if horseradish is not one of the minim the ta’am is mivatel the ta’am of the real maror thus leaving you with a bracha livatalah and no mitzvah-per the gemara pesachim mitzvos mivatel zu et zu- part of the machloket there regarding korech.
Paa: Its not only tamcha ,but even chazeres is debatable,not every lettuce your yotzei with and even romaine nowadays if its not grown natural some hold its a problem. My point everything is a machlokes.
Dk: I believe Rav Solavaitck(don’t know how to spell in English) ate both.
sam4: That was a Purim Shpiel I once wrote. Everything is a Machlokes so it’s Assur to eat because of Safek Brachos. You have to live off an IV.
And which language do you know how to spell it in?
Spanish!
so nu
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