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Yesterday was the 3rd anniversary of the Fogel family massacre and here we are with such internal strife between sections of Jews. Earlier this year, I met a member of the counter-terrorism unit who, after arresting the men responsible, retraced the events with the terrorists. The killers then showed how they doubled back into the house to slit the throat the 4 month old baby after hearing her cries. Why do we only come together after events like these? Our enemies don’t differentiate, why should we? HaShem Yikam Damam.
I sometimes feel that I would like to get along better with other people, but other times I’m not sure.
This is especially true when they don’t accept my point of view, even for the sake of piece. The selfish <deleted>!
not edited
Because we don’t want to be like our enemies.
P.S. The term <deleted>s has come to be used often, hasn’t it?
I’m going to be decisive and decide that you meant “divisive.”
The Wolf
Phew!!
Thank you Wolf!!
I was waiting for a Ba’al Chessed to come forward and do that.
And you did it with such elegance and eloquence.
Guess you must be polishing up your Chessed feature just in time for Kol Ha’Poshet Yad…
Golfer,
I don’t know if you’re being sarcastic or not.
However, for the record, my post had nothing to do with Chesed. I am not what one would categorize as a “ba’al chesed.”
The Wolf
Al100- you are so right. i think that that is the unfortunate reason that tragedy befalls us so often. Not necessarily because we deserve punishment, but because it seems to be one of the most effective ways to wake us up R”L. Perhaps we can go out of our ways this Purim and cross political and hashkofic boundaries in a simchadik way to show Hashem it can be done!
(and tho I love many of this threads posters, those posts are a real slight to the OP’s point)
An argument often advanced, and one I never get.
Of course we should all love each other. But we are often divided in our beliefs, and ‘fight’ for what we consider to be the proper one. When done properly, there’s nothing wrong with that.
The fact that many individuals will go about that the wrong way does not mean that we should all drop our values/ideals/beliefs and just accept whatever goes.
Logician – I can’t see how any of your post has shiachus? Nobody said anything like that.
Just my experience that when people say things like what you did, they’re not just looking for mutual personal respect, but are bothered by people differentiating based on hashkafos. Like is it really so important if he’s a Zionist, or Lubavitch, [just using common examples, nothing personal!] or any sect that people may disagree with – and while you should personally be able to get along with and love him, you may have a real problem with them, and that will def. come out a lot on a communal level. Like no, I don’t want to formally invite a certain group to a specific function, because I don’t recognize their way as legitimate – and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Not saying that’s what YOU meant.
It was probably a response to what you wrote, “
cross political and hashkofic boundaries“. Logician took it as crossing the boundary of your hashkafa, while you only meant to reach out to those on the other side of the hashkafic fence.It’s one thing to have different viewpoints and discuss it. It’s another thing to fight and have ill feelings towards others.
What divides us is when people look at other people like aliens. Look at those…..
We need to see each other as brothers and sisters. And if we have different issues and viewpoints, we should work it out in a productive way. We can disagree and still respect each other.
It’s a matter of priority, people.
It’s fine to defend your beliefs, as long as you can do so while prioritizing shalom at all costs (machloket is not worth it for anything short of blatant perpetual heresy)
E-O-M, don’t you think that it may be worth defending a breach in Hashem’s kavod even if it may fall short of “blatant perpetual heresy”?
A breach of hashems kavod is definitely heresy… Unless we are holding by different standards. Not everyone with an opinion that differs from your own is “breaching hashems kavod”
A breach of hashems kavod is definitely heresy
No, it’s not. It may certainly be wrong, but it’s not heresy. You may want to look up the meaning of the word in the dictionary.
(Also, as long as we’re talking about His kavod, you should capitalize the “H” when referring to HKBH.)
The Wolf
Logician didn’t ‘take it that way’.
He opines that in many cases, when people claim they only want love between all people, they really have an issue that the various different shitos are important enough to divide us (usually finding that fault with those on the ‘right’).
All I say is if all jews prioritized peace (love would be nice too) between each other at all times, as opposed to fueling their passions for their beliefs with hatred and anger, we’d have moshiach and Eliahu to tell us who’s shitot to follow… The Rabbis tell us that achdut trumps all in terms of service to HaShem.
??? ????? vs. ??? ??????
????? ??????
Countless other stories and instances in which achdut is emphasized as the only key to our survival and flourishing as a people.
Re; Definition of heresy (k’fira), I would need an scenario in which Hashem’s kavod was compromised without:
A. It being blatant k’fira
B. It being a completely objective matter of opinion on whether Hashem’s kavod was really breached.
Happy Purim! We all did some serious teshuva together as a nation to be saved on this holiday. We can do it again, without the haman.
E-O-M – Nice!
Al100 and Syag: +10000000
The title is misspelled. by the way.
Just popping in to say LOL at the URL, mods :).
The URL is the original title.
Unless it was changed TO an incorrect spelling, I don’t think it is…
It was, actually.
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