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(what’s the original source of this?)
This is an interesting idea being presented in the hadran.
Apparently, there is a dichotomy, where you are either a yosheiv beis medrash, or a yosheiv keranos. Is there nothing in between?
Apparently, there is a dichotomy, where you are either doing divrei torah, or doing devarim beteilim. Is there nothing in between? What about mundane stuff like taking out the garbage and washing the dishes and shopping for food? What about doing mitzvos like building your sukkah?
Moreover, everybody says this in the hadran. But many people who are making a siyum spend most of their day doing mundane stuff like working, and the minority learning. So are they a yosheiv beis medrash or a yosheiv keranos?
Maybe pshat is that the categorization of yoshvei beis medrash v yosheiv keranos has to do with what you do in your spare time. Do you work 9-8 and then sit in keranos, or do you work 9-8 and also learn on the side?
And that that also transforms the rest of what you do into divrei torah v devarim beteilim. Meaning, that if your life doesn’t centralize torah, even the other important things you do become devarim beteilim, since they aren’t in the service of torah.
I’m not very sold on this theory though.
Maybe pshat is that the categorization of yoshvei beis medrash v yosheiv keranos has to do with what you do in your spare time. Do you work 9-8 and then sit in keranos, or do you work 9-8 and also learn on the side?
And that that also transforms the rest of what you do into divrei torah v devarim beteilim. Meaning, that if your life doesn’t centralize torah, even the other important things you do become devarim beteilim, since they aren’t in the service of torah.
I like this very much.
Also, there are other dichotomies in this tefila. Someone who is from those who learn Torah, gets up to learn Torah, works and gets [spiritual] schar, is going towards Olam Haba.
Suppose someone is from those who learn Torah, but doesn’t fit one of the other categories?
So let’s go a step further. Maybe it’s saying that it’s about the attitude the whole time.
You can learn in Beis Medrash, but spend your time following politics and answering silly threads on the CR. That’s a yoshvei Kranos. Or you could work, but learn in your spare time and respond to Torah-dik and halachic threads. Then you’re a Yoshvei Beis Hamedrash.
So let’s go a step further. Maybe it’s saying that it’s about the attitude the whole time.
The Ro”sh (Brachos 11b) says that it is sufficient to say Birchas HaTorah once a day even for someone who works, because he rushes to finish his work, and is mentally involved in his learning the whole time.
Surely such a person, although a “balabos”, would qualify as a “yoshev bais hamidrash”.
Thank you.
(Would you let your son eat in my house?)
If the moderator allows thsi comment through, let me stand up for “kevodo shel torah”. Popa- DaasYochid has more torah in his small pinky than you have in your fat head. You are truly a piece of work- insulting a talmid chochom. Disgraceful.
Rabbiofberlin, I am touched by your concern for my (undeserved) kavod, and impressed by your your standing up for what you see as kavod haTorah.
I must point out, though, that I’m absolutely certain that popa’s comment was meant to be completely harmless.
First of all, b”H popa and I have a mutual respect which allows us to tease each other a bit without any bad feelings. Second, in context, when I just finished saying how someone who works can still be considered a “yoshev beis hamidrash”, I think it’s fair to say that he actually meant it as a compliment, layered in humor.
I must express my thanks for you, though, for coming to my defense, especially since we’ve had our share of disagreements.
DaasYochid:any disagreements we had in the past were matters of halachic interpretation,certainly not on personalities. I fully respect your knowledge and consider you a true talmid chochom. No need to send you barbs!
Popa, anyone who ever makes a Siyum got to call himself a Yoshvei Beis Medrash. That should show you something.
I have wondered about this question before as well. It seems to me that the reciter of the Hadran thanks hashem for being one of the yoshvei Bais HaMedrash which would imply that simply finishing a mesechta is either a siba or a siman that one is one of the yoshvei Bais HaMedrash and not a yoshvei kranos.
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