- This topic has 48 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by .
-
Posts
-
I’m trying to track down our family yichus.
My great grandmother,Rochel Waisfogel was a grandaughter of the Chasam Sofer, but we have no clue who was her mother, whoever knew is not alive anymore for us to ask them. We only have the matzevah in which it’s written Rochel bas Gedalia, nechda of the Chasam Sofer, and that she was born in Warsaw – without a date.
Any clues? Please help.
My husband is a descendant of the Chasan Sofer. We have a detailed family tree going back a few generations. If I remember tonight, and if I can actually find it, I’ll try to look to see if it has any information that might help you.
I’m so sorry but I totally forgot about this and now that I was cleaning my drawers out for Pesach, found the family tree! Do you want to see it?
gg and NJ_Mom: My family also has yichus to the Chasam Sofer. So, it would be wonderful if NJ_Mom would share the family tree. Thank you.
I’m not sure exactly how I can share it. Any ideas?
Put the family tree on Geni.
mods why was my previous post not posted? i was just adding to blockhead’s list of family tree site!
myheritage or ancestry
Was This tree posted anywhere? Can I get a copy. Thanks
Once you’re here anyway…
All “Chasam Sofer eineklach” pride themselves for being the progeny of the great Chasam Sofer – why don’t we ever hear you calling yourselves “R’ Akiva Eiger Eineklach”? Aren’t all Chasam Sofer eineklach automatically from the progeny of R’ Akiva Eiger?
Yekke: Who said otherwise. We pride ourselves on both.
Who said otherwise.
Have you ever heard anyone introducing themselves as a Reb Akiva Eiger Einekal? It never happens. The first introduction is “I’m a Chassam Sofer EInekel”. It doesn’t even come into the same sentence.
For that matter, they are all the descendants of Yaakov Avinu. Why don’t they mention that? What greater yichus can you have than that?
If you go back a few hundred years, then most Ashkenazi Jews today are descended from most Ashkenazi Jews in that generation, I think. I’m not sure how far you have to go back, but I don’t think it’s all that far when you take into account that every generation your ancestors double.
Not exactly double, since there’s a lot of crossover yichus with the same people being your grandparents multiple times through different lines.
For that matter, they are all the descendants of Yaakov Avinu. Why don’t they mention that? What greater yichus can you have than that?
I imagine that was said in jest. It is obviously very different – people announce Yichus as a sign of pride or prestige; it involves having lineage that others don’t. Whatever the ma’aleh of Yichus is, you trace yourselves to someone special. My question was why they all stop at the Chasam Sofer, but don’t continue one extra generation to his shver, R’ Akiva Eiger.
Please correct me if I’m wrong. Rav Akiva Eiger was the Chasam Sofer’s second wife’s father. The CS may have had children from his first wife who are therefore not RAE einiklach.
It wasn’t a joke. If the point of yichus is to announce that you have lineage that others don’t, that’s really obnoxious and not befitting a descendant of Avraham Avinu.
The idea of Yichus is to appreciate the fact that if you are descended from _____, it means that you have a certain potential as a result. Being the descendant of the Avos means that we have inherited the greatest potential possible and it is much more deeply ingrained than the potential one has as a result of being descended from more contemporary Gedolim.
My point was that we don’t value enough what it means to be descended from the Avos.
I get your point, but I’m not sure if you got mine.
Because it’s ben acher ben from the Chasam Sofer but not from Rav Akiva Eiger.
Its all a matter of what family tree impresses who…beyond the first generation, there is unlikely to be much direct impact on a descendant. I’m sure for purposes of shadchanus among a small percentage of the tzaibur, being able to claim yichus to EITHER the Chasam Sofer or R’ Eiger would be a net positive but even then, most frum young men and women today are much more concerned about the attributes and midos of the prospective chasan/kalah than who their grandfather or great-grandfather may have been.
The idea of Yichus is to appreciate the fact that if you are descended from _____, it means that you have a certain potential as a result. Being the descendant of the Avos means that we have inherited the greatest potential possible and it is much more deeply ingrained than the potential one has as a result of being descended from more contemporary Gedolim.
I am not a yachsan; I do not descend from any famously prestigious lineage; I always found it quite childish to boast of Yichus. Nevertheless, it isn’t just boasting, there is some sort of maaleh, although I don’t know what it is (I don’t think zchus avos is the correct answer). Are you saying that as long as you descend from the Avos, having other gedolim along the route is irrelevant? Or are you just decrying the condescending attitude of Yichus?
Please correct me if I’m wrong. Rav Akiva Eiger was the Chasam Sofer’s second wife’s father. The CS may have had children from his first wife who are therefore not RAE einiklach.
You are correct that Reb Akiva Eiger’s daughter was the Chasam Sofer’s second wife. But from what I understand, the first wife died childless. He had 10 children from the second marriage.
“Are you saying that as long as you descend from the Avos, having other gedolim along the route is irrelevant?”
No. (although I agree that boasting is childish – even worse, it demonstrates bad middos and shows that the yichus is meaningless since the person clearly did not inherit his ancestor’s middos.)
“Or are you just decrying the condescending attitude of Yichus?”
That was probably part of it. I think it was more about reminding people that being descended from the Avos is the greatest Yichus, so even if someone does not have “yichus”, they should realize that they actually have the greatest yichus.
When it comes to the Avos, it is about zchus avos which is based on the fact that the Avos are out “shoresh” and all of us have inherited their qualities and therefore have the potential to be like the Avos (which is why we are supposed to ask ourselves, “Masai yagiu maasei l’maasei avosai?”
When it comes to other Gedolim, I don’t think that is necessarily the case.
Two nice ideas I have heard about yichus:
1. It’s better to have descendants who have yichus than to have yichus yourself.2. It’s like the number 100. Yichus is worth 0. But when you take two 0’s and put a 1 in front, it becomes 100 (the 1 being your own middos).
Yichus really means very little, there are non jews with good Yichus (And I mean JEWISH Yichus)
The Torah says you’re wrong, ZD. Shabbos 55a. People benefit from zchus avos for many generations.
Both me and my husband are eineklach of the Chasam Sofer from different sons. We both take such tremendous pride having such yichus and do our best to show our alte (x’s a lot) Zaidy nachas from shamayim. Would love to see a family tree. Please post how one could take a peak.
We too are eineklach from CHASAM SOFER AND RAK”E, and I always wondered the same question. I think the answer is, although we all now the greatness of R’ Akiva Eiger, bchaiov he wasn’t so poplar as the chasam sofer for the chas”s had a huge kehila and yeshiva, almost all rabonim in Hungary Czechoslovakia etc. where his talmidim or talmidim form the Kasav Sofer, and his sons and einklach where rabonim .. Bekitzur the Chasam Sofer was RABON SHEL KOL BENI HAGOLA, WHile R’ akiva eiger is famous for lomdim only that can spend a day understanding a Gilyun Hasas, or a week learing SHU”T R Akiva Eiger.
I have another question, does any one know of einaklach from R’ Akiva Eiger that are not from the Chasm Sofer, other then the once that are Einklach from R’ Liebel EIger -Kotzk… ?
“Yichus really means very little, there are non jews with good Yichus (And I mean JEWISH Yichus)”
How does that prove that it means very little?
I actually wouldn’t be surprised if a relatively high percentage of geirim have “Jewish blood”
My point was that Goyim can be good people, and maybe the goyim who have “yichus” are better people as a result and/or more connected to G-d, etc.
Another possibility is that yichus only applies to Jews.
But either way, it doesn’t prove that yichus means nothing. (granted, you wrote “means very little”. It is possible that yichus does not mean so much, but I don’t think that is a good proof.)
“Because it’s ben acher ben from the Chasam Sofer but not from Rav Akiva Eiger.”
Please reread the OP:
“My great grandmother,Rochel Waisfogel was a grandaughter of the Chasam Sofer, but we have no clue who was her mother, whoever knew is not alive anymore for us to ask them. We only have the matzevah in which it’s written Rochel bas Gedalia, nechda of the Chasam Sofer, ”
Perhaps you meant to say, “bas achar bas’?
King Menashe had Yichus from his Father king Hezikeyahu and see how much that meant
Lilmod Ulelamaid: That comment you quoted from me was intended to be a response to Geordie, not the OP.
LU
The people I am referring to are NOT JEWISH, they have jewish fathers, but are not Halachically jewish.
And there are plenty of cases where children of Gedolim clearly did not live up to the parents, King Menashe is the most obvious example, but he is far from alone.
In fact right now there is an “Activist” who decided one day he was a woman and this person has lots of Yichus including from the Baal Shem Tov
“Lilmod Ulelamaid: That comment you quoted from me was intended to be a response to Geordie, not the OP.”
I thought it was a response to Yekke. I don’t see what it had to do with Geordie’s comment, which was a response to Yekke anyhow. Are you sure you hadn’t meant it as a response to Yekke?
All Brits sound the same to me.
But, yeah, the Ben Acher Ben was for Yekke’s question of “My question was why they all stop at the Chasam Sofer, but don’t continue one extra generation to his shver, R’ Akiva Eiger.”
“The people I am referring to are NOT JEWISH, they have jewish fathers, but are not Halachically jewish.”
I realized that. That is precisely why I wrote: “My point was that Goyim can be good people, and maybe the goyim who have “yichus” are better people as a result and/or more connected to G-d, etc.
Another possibility is that yichus only applies to Jews.”
“”And there are plenty of cases where children of Gedolim clearly did not live up to the parents, King Menashe is the most obvious example, but he is far from alone.
In fact right now there is an “Activist” who decided one day he was a woman and this person has lots of Yichus including from the Baal Shem Tov””
That is very true (at least the first point – I know nothing about the second, but will take your word for it), but it is not a proof that Yichus means nothing at all. It does prove that it doesn’t mean everything.
As I pointed out above, yichus is only meaningful when the descendants live up to their ancestors’ examples. And there are certainly many people who don’t. But those that do have an added boost from their inheritance. (at least that is how I always understood it).
My point is you are a great person or a bad person not because your ancestor was a Gadol, but because of what YOU DID in life
Joseph – yeah, that’s what I thought. And that’s why my response was to quote from the OP to show that she/he is not a ben acher ben from the Chasam Sofer, so your response is not a good answer to Yekke’s question.
ZD – I agree 100%!!!!
“Joseph – yeah, that’s what I thought. ”
I’m glad we concur that all Brits sound the same. 😎
I have great yichus, I’m a descendant of Avraham Avinu and Moshe Rabeinu- how good can it get?
I’m also descendant from the chassam sofer apparently. We aren’t sure how, but it’s highly probable.
its very simple why.
like most Gedolei Yisroel there are thousands of desecndants of RAE who are not Frum and not even Jewish.
The Chassam Sofer was Zoche that almost all of his offspring are Frum Jews .Yes!
all the offspring of the Chasam Sofer are automatically from RAE
since he had no children from his first and third wives.is this blog still working?
Does anyone know what happened to the machatzis hashekel that was owned by the chassam sofer and inherited by the ksav sofer. I believe I have the hand to hand info, but i’d like to know if the info i have is correct.
The Shlah Hakadash says our forefathers are mentioned in the tochacha, vezocharti es brisi yaakov, to make us realize that having great forefathers and not following them makes it worse.
$100 to anyone who can find the missing link of the Machatzis Hashekel once Owned by the Chasam Sofer. I have seen (and touched) this coin and I know where it is. I hope someone can help me authenticate it. The first step is to find out about the last heir to the coin – William H Bauer.
The following statement was made by William H. Baur on June 12, 2013. He has since passed away (jan 2015). The statement is titled “Family Medal”.
The Jewish Medal was first owned by a famous Jewish rabbin Rabi Mosses Sofer who left it for his son Abraham, it was inherited by Rosie who gave it to Akiba who lived in Germany he gave this medal to his daughter Gertrude and she brought it to the United States. She gave it to Morris who gave it to his daughter, my grandmother who gave it as a gift to me.
William H BauerThat was word for word with all (missing) punctuation exactly as it is written. The $100 challenge is to figure out who is Morris’s daughter, Wiliam’s grandmother. (Consider that possibility that Morris may be Gertrude’s husband who had a daughter from a different marriage. I suggest that because I could not find any Baur Family in the genealogy line. But it’s just a guess.)
NJ MOM,
Please see my last post.Thanks
NJ Mom, Your last post just says asks how to share your family tree, but it doesn’t tell anything else.
If you would be able to help me out here, I’d be so appreciative. Thanks
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.