They're Starting Sukkah Today!!

Home Forums Bais Medrash Daf Yomi Sukkah They're Starting Sukkah Today!!

Viewing 43 posts - 1 through 43 (of 43 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #612048

    To those that didn’t know. Don’t say you had no warning. (and don’t use those epithets)

    (obviously alef is before bais.)

    #1002154
    MDG
    Participant

    “obviously alef is before bais.”

    Does that mean that they are reading the title page today?

    #1002155
    Sam2
    Participant

    No, they are starting the Yerushalmi.

    #1002156
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Alef of any Masechta is pretty much the same. I’m taking the day off.

    #1002157
    BaalHabooze
    Participant

    What does it mean a sukka that is 20 amos high is not a kosher because the shade is from the walls (and not from the sechach)? What part of the day are we referring to? If the sun is directly above the sukka (midday) then of course the shade is from the sechach, so it should be kosher!?!

    #1002158
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I thought it was referring to a shin daled “shade”. And if it is 20 amos high, then the shin daled can hide in the walls.

    #1002159
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    BaalHabooze,

    Only if you’re in the tropics. Jerusalem’s latitude is approximately 31.5 degrees north of the equator. On the summer solstice, the maximum (e.g., noontime) sun angle at that latitude is ~ 82 degrees, and on the winter solstice that angle is ~ 35 degrees. Assuming Sukkos falls out near the autumnal equinox, the sun angle at noon would be approximately 60 degrees, so even at noon the walls are casting a shadow.

    #1002160
    MDG
    Participant

    Israel is around 30 degrees north of the equator. Around the equinox (about Sukkot time), the sun is 60 degrees above the horizon, not directly overhead at 90.

    #1002161
    Sam2
    Participant

    BaalHabooze: See the Ritva on 2a.

    #1002162
    apushatayid
    Participant

    Hmmm…my daf yomi calendar says that succah is starting tomorrow (wednesday).

    #1002163
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Does it count if you start too early?

    Anyhow, I vote that BaalHabooze’s question gets this thread into the new Sukkah section. Mods, please? TIA.

    #1002164
    apushatayid
    Participant

    If I’m not mistaken the gemara will say we are talking about a succah that is daled by daled. No matter the time of day a succah this size will always have tzeil from the walls not schach.

    #1002165
    2qwerty
    Participant

    BaalHabooze, a football field size sukkah will not have much shade from 20 amos walls. It’s all about your perspective.

    #1002166
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    If you read Rashi carefully, you will notice that the issue is that people don’t erect this type of structure for the purpose of shade. We learn from the pasuk to build a shade structure booth as a Succah, but this shape is not that.

    #1002167
    147
    Participant

    Alef of any Masechta is pretty much the same. I’m taking the day off. Only problem in Bavli is that there is no Oleph to any Massechto, as all Masechtos commence on Daf “Beis”.

    I shall learn Sukko so that I can make a Siyum on the last day of Sukko which is Yom Kippur Kotton, and hence can legitimately absolve myself from fasting on Yom Kippur due to my making a Siyum on Sukkoh.

    #1002168
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I will learn sukkah because Hashem said to.

    #1002169
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    He did? So what were we doing until now!?

    147, starting on a number higher than 1 is not unique to the Shas. Many books count the title page as the first. If you didn’t know what I meant, what did you think I was referring to?

    #1002170
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    So I looked at the Ritva. Avram in MD and MDG were m’chaven to his first teirutz.

    I think his second teirutz says that even directly overhead, above 20 amos would not cast enough of a shadow to be considered proper tzel for schach.

    #1002171
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    So, about those iron walls.

    Why is 20 amos more of a generic rule than non iron walls?

    #1002172
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    A tall Succah is no doubt a different type of room, one which will necessarilly be built strong. The fact that walls are strong is not a defining character of the room.

    Rashi is addressing your question. He explains that since strong includes weak, the Torah is not excluding a strong Succah. Rather, it is a Siman for the Shiur of the Succah.

    #1002174
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I think that’s Abaye’s kashya on Rava, as explained by Rashi on amud beis.

    ???? ????? ?????. ???? ?????? ?? ???? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ????? ??????:

    #1002175
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I don’t do rashi.

    It’s an insult to Rashi’s depth to run though it at a million miles an hour and not give it the attention it deserves.

    #1002176
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    It’s an insult to Rashi’s depth to think I can understand even if I spend a week on one Rashi, but I try to do the best I can in the time I use for it.

    The gemara also deserves more attention than we give it, but whatever we do is still nechmadim m’zahav umipaz rav.

    #1002177
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    (can’t believe DY thinks 26 minutes is enough time to understand a popa post; what an insult)

    #1002178
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    (can’t believe popa thinks 34 minutes is enough time to understand a DY post; what an insult)

    #1002179
    apushatayid
    Participant

    i cant believe either of you think people spend even a minute on your posts. what gaava! 🙂

    #1002180
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Says the guy who spent 28 minutes on our posts.

    #1002181

    There is only ONE Mesechta in Shas where Tosfos quotes the Yerushalmi on every single daf.

    Can you name that Mesechta???

    #1002182
    WIY
    Member

    DY

    Why would the Gemara only be referring to a succah in EY?

    #1002183
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    WIY, it’s not that the gemara is only referring to a sukkah in E.Y.; the shiur of 20 amos applies to a sukkah in any location. The point of reference, though, which the Torah is using to tell us the shiur is a sukkah in E.Y.

    #1002184
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    WIY, it makes sense that the Torah was referring to such a Succah. However, for that reason, I like my answer more and it seems to be Rashi’s approach.

    #1002185
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    HaLeiVi, I don’t see how you read that into Rashi, nor how such a pshat would explain the words of the Gemara.

    #1002186
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    I didn’t. I took it out from Rashi. Rashi (Vesuccah Tihye) says that S’chach is only that which is meant for shade. The next Rashi says that the issue is that we don’t need the S’chach. On Amud Beis (Tarti) he writes that the term Succah is only used when it is built for shade.

    Rebbi Zeira is saying that since in such a structure the shade is the walls and not the S’chach, the S’chach in this case is not put there for shade.

    #1002187
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    No, the Gemara says that the person is not sitting in the shade of the schach, nothing to do with the defined purpose of the schach.

    #1002188
    Sam2
    Participant

    No one still looked at the Ritva…

    #1002189
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Since you aren’t sitting under the shade of the S’chach you won’t build it. If you did build it, it wasn’t for shade. The point is that even if it would help for five minutes a day, you still wouldn’t build it just for that.

    #1002190
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Someone still didn’t see my post…

    They're Starting Sukkah Today!!

    (I don’t see a Ritva on Sukkah on hebrewbooks, but I have a Mossad Harav Kook one.)

    #1002191
    Sam2
    Participant

    Oh. So they were. I didn’t see their posts because they showed up before mine.

    #1002192
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    HaLeiVi, a bit convoluted, no? Since I don’t see any hint of that in Rashi, I’ll go with poshut pshat.

    #1002193
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Done.

    #1002194
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Popa, the whole Sukkah, today’s daf, Yoma, or Rosh Hashanah?

    #1002195
    apushatayid
    Participant

    lunch

    #1002196
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    🙂

Viewing 43 posts - 1 through 43 (of 43 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.